Professional Tennis: Rick Macci
Grand Slam Architect: Rick Macci on the Champion’s Mindset
What do world champions have in common—and how do you spot them before the world does? In this episode of unNatural Selection, legendary tennis coach Rick Macci joins us to break down the art and science of identifying raw talent and shaping it into Grand Slam greatness.
Coach to Serena and Venus Williams, Jennifer Capriati, and Andy Roddick, Macci shares what elite performance looks like before it’s fully formed, how he adapts his coaching playbook across generations, and why competition in tennis mirrors evolution in the wild. From instincts to innovation, we explore what it really takes to create—and sustain—winners in one of the world’s most competitive arenas.
Whether you’re in business, sports, or strategy, this is a masterclass in survival, adaptation, and the mindset behind becoming a slice above the rest.
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Rick Macci is one of the most accomplished and the respected figures in the history of tennis, a legendary coach, elite talent developer and the youngest ever inductee into the USPTA Hall of Fame.
Known for his uncanny ability to identify raw potential and transform it into world class performance, Mackie has helped shape the careers of some of the greatest players the sport has ever seen.
1:20
He has coached 5 world number ones, including Serena Williams, Venus Williams, Jennifer Capriati, Maria Sharapova, and Andy Roddick, and was instrumental in the early development of many others who reached the highest levels of the game.
His resume reads like a tennis Hall of Fame by itself.
1:36
Five players ranked number one in the world.
Two players ranked #2 in the world. 8 Olympic gold medals. 12 players ranked in the world.
Top 1052 Grand Slam singles titles. 86 total Grand Slam title singles double S mixed, over 346 USTA Junior National title since 1985 and seven time USPTA National Coach of the Year.
2:00
Mackey's influence in the game goes far beyond technique.
His work has reshaped the mindset, training, culture and competitive DNA of modern tennis.
His pivotal role in launching the careers of Serena and Venus Williams was immortalized in the Oscar winning film King Richard, where he was portrayed by John Bernthal.
2:17
As the founder of the Rick Mackie Tennis Academy in Florida, he continues to work hands on with players at all levels, blending old school discipline with cutting edge insight.
A master motivator and strategic thinker, Mackie's philosophy and competition, talent development and high performance resonate far beyond the baseline.
2:33
Rick, it is such an honor to have you here.
Welcome to our natural.
2:37
Speaker 1
Selection Now I'm glad to be here.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
I've played tennis my entire life, never to the levels of the kind of tennis that you're familiar with, but this is this is a dream come true for me.
So I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
No, no, we'll dive into it and you got the question.
2:55
I I got the answer.
I start with the same question every single time just to level set and give the listeners also a perspective on the industry because we can't just assume that they know.
3:04
Rick’s business and role within it
So Rick and in simple.
3:06
Speaker 2
Terms.
Please describe the business that you're in and your role within that business.
3:11
Speaker 1
Well, obviously I'm known for tennis, but I'm really in the people business.
You know, I'm more of a life coach than a tennis coach, even though the tennis court has been my platform my whole life.
You know, I don't really just change strokes.
3:28
I change the way people look at the world and obviously the game of tennis.
So I'm in the people business.
It just happened to be Tennis has always been my calling card and you know, I love what I do even as much today as I did back then.
3:43
Speaker 2
Before you were coaching world number ones and shaping some of the greatest athletes in tennis history.
3:48
What shaped you as a coach?
You're probably developing your instincts, your eye for talents, your approach to coaching, your ability to mold champions.
Before all of that, what shaped you as a coach?
How did you develop that rare ability to not only spot greatness, but to help bring it to life?
4:06
Speaker 1
First off, this it's a great question.
You know, if I can back the truck up.
I actually grew up in a small town, Greenville, OH, 20 miles southwest of Dayton, OH.
My father passed away when I was 10 years old.
4:21
I used to be a very good golfer.
I picked up a racket, went down to the park, hit against the wall.
I liked it.
Wall Wally was undefeated.
It always came back.
And this is crazy without a lesson.
By age 18, I was #1 in the High Valley without any lessons.
4:41
Became really good, really quick, beat a lot of all Americans.
But I knew I was never going to be great to make it on the pro tour.
I got into coaching at 22, and I always had this gift to want to help others more than myself.
4:56
And I always liked analyzing things and I've always been relentless to try to figure it out.
And I was never satisfied.
So I'd always further my education, you know, and doing things on my own.
Growing up, I was always mentally strong in the Hall of Fame for tennis and basketball.
5:14
So I think those cornerstones or those gold Nuggets have always been inside of me.
So when you have that combination, like helping others more and yourself always want to figure things out, you know what I mean?
5:29
And kind of doing it on your own, that has really set me on this path to identify talent.
And as I tell people all the time, what you may see is different than Rick may see.
OK.
So it's a very different thing that I do.
5:47
Obviously I've been involved with that.
I teach all levels.
It's not just people.
Venus, Serena Capriotti Roddick Sharapova Kennen Pierce Muskina Rude.
I actually coach Casper's dad Christian.
He was Norway's finest than so Casper But no, listen, I I work with everybody.
6:07
You know, it doesn't matter what age, what level.
I just love being on the tennis court.
And, you know, at the end of the day, when you have passion and you're always trying to figure it out and, you know, evaluating talent is in the eye beholder and we can get into that.
6:24
You know, even with the Williams is what I saw, you know, a lot of people probably couldn't see I wasn't looking on the outside.
So those are kind of the cornerstones of how I'm put together.
And I lead by example, you know, and that's like probably the most important thing because I can influence someone's mindset and how they look at things because I deal with the mental part as much as I do the bio mechanics and everything else.
6:50
Yeah, it's amazing.
As you were talking, I was thinking about the fact that you were you weren't describing a coach, you were describing a leader in the way that you invest into others, you care more about them.
You lead by example and you try to shape the way that they think and view the world and inspire them to become better.
7:07
I mean, these are all things that we talked about in the in industry and about what makes a difference between, say a manager and a leader and everything that you said defined to to me what a leader looks like.
Absolutely.
And plus, I, I lead by example.
You know, I'm first to work.
7:23
I get I, I hope you're I'm glad you're sitting down.
I get up every day at 1:00.
I know you're going.
Whoa, some somebody asked me why do you get up at 1?
I said, well, 12's a little too early.
OK, so I get up at 1.
I do my thing, run a half mile.
7:39
I'm very structured.
I'm in a routine.
That's how you become a machine.
I open up Rick Macy Tennis Center out here at the park every day at 4:00.
I'm on the court at 5:00 and I, I just changed the way people look at things.
7:55
Now.
If you have someone with unreal genetics and a lot of potential, OK, I can tell when I got a feel when they're going to be good.
There's nothing matter of good, going to college free or whatever, or if they checked enough boxes, then it's up to Rick Macy to put Humpty Dumpty together and mold greatness.
8:15
OK, so this is kind of what I do, but I lead by example.
I've never sat down on the tennis court in 30 years, you know, and never.
And I just.
And that's just another thing that motivates people because you know as well as I do, one word can change a child's life.
8:34
These kids listen to me more than their opponent.
And I have the obviously the background, the pedigree, the voice, OK, But I don't play that card.
I just I'm one of the guys and lead by example when I can get kids to move mountains where before they didn't think they could do anything.
8:52
And when we talk about tennis, it's it's such a fiercely competitive sport.
8:57
Mentality of a Champion
It's also so mental.
And, you know, and especially we talk about singles.
Singles you're out there by yourself trying to compete against someone who's fiercely trying to beat you so so much of it is mental and the mind of a champion is something that is it something that you recognize early you know, you mentioned seeing certain qualities in different.
9:19
Speaker 2
Players or is it something that has to be forged over time and through struggle and experience?
9:26
Speaker 1
Another great question.
It cuts both ways.
A little bit of it can be environmental.
What I mean is your family dynamic, you know, can kind of shape the way you do certain things, OK.
But it can be nurtured and cultivated.
9:43
And that's where someone like me comes in.
Ever make excuses?
Run for every ball.
You got to remember to forget that's that's in life and in tennis, you know, that's why people are better double s and singles.
They got, they got a therapist on the court where in singles it's all by yourself that you got 20 seconds to flip it in your mind, come back, come back out there and serve a return and feel great about yourself and greatness.
10:09
Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, they've mastered mind control like it never even happened.
So yeah, a little bit of it's environmental and you know, all these people that I've had, this is crazy.
Sharapova, when I had her at 11, she was in a bubble.
10:28
I mean, it was, it was unreal.
And nothing faze this girl, OK?
And she wasn't the best athlete I had at that time.
She wasn't even the best 11 year old, even though I knew she was going to be great, OK?
She was just bang locked in.
10:45
Now you can get that later on.
OK, I had when I had Serena at the same age, the plane would go by and she'd wave at it.
I'm going, whoa.
I don't I don't think this girl is going to be the greatest that ever picked up a racket.
So for any coach or parent, you don't judge a book by cover.
11:02
It's not where you start, it's where you finish.
It's junior development, not junior final destination.
So I don't I've just seen people mature later and so on.
But if you have that mental box, check where you're just right there.
11:18
It's a very unique quality.
Kenan had it, Sophia Kenan, who I have, and Maria.
But it could be you can get that later on.
But if you have that, you're going to be the best you can be.
Whether you're just a high school player, you go to college maybe for free.
11:36
That's such a big thing.
But you learn that as you go through the game of life.
But to already have that, the technical part and the strategic part, OK, is the easier part for me because we've always been on the cutting edge of bio mechanics and the worldwide leader in that area.
11:54
So I'm not, that's the easier part.
But you give me someone who's rough and tough and is all about the competition and they have great genetics.
There's something good in the oven.
12:06
Speaker 2
I'm curious to know how a child effectively has that mindset because as I mentioned, I played tennis my whole life.
12:14
How to train a child to be a world-class athlete
And it's so hard to put behind that last point where you, it was, the court was wide open.
All you needed to do is just tap it over.
And yet you hit it into the net.
And, and if you do that three or four times, it affects your psychology, it affects your confidence.
All kinds of things are going downhill and, and, and it's really hard to control that.
12:33
So to think that you have a Sharapova or other players at 11 or 12 years old that can overcome that and be able to see every single point for what it is, and to do that and deal with the pressure and stay mentally bulletproof over the long haul, that has to be such a unique skill.
12:54
Yeah, I don't see that a lot.
I actually have a little Ukrainian girl now.
She's nine years old.
I'm telling you right now, this little girl, I'm going to make her number one in the world.
She has all the boxes checked.
She does a lot of fitness videos.
She's had 3 million views, OK, She has a 400,000 followers on Instagram.
13:13
Her name's Vlada Haranchar.
OK, but she has the same thing.
She has the same thing.
Plus there's many other boxes checked.
This is the scariest little creature that I've ever seen.
Quick, fast discipline, locked in, great retention, great attitude.
13:34
She's small, she's only four, 565 lbs, but she's going to be 59140.
And she's always smiling, but she has a knife in her pocket when she's on the tennis court.
Brutal competitor, super fast And I'm just putting Humpty Dumpty together because we got to be ahead of the curve whenever it's time for that time to come, whatever six years from now or whatever.
13:58
I want the best forehand in the world, technically the best backhand in the world, the best serve in the world and have a complete game like no other because she already has the inside.
I saw the same thing as I saw in Venus and Serena on the inside.
14:14
Plus she is faster than fast and you know, as I do in this game, because movements of premium now the games like Advanced pinball on steroids, if you can't move, you better be dealing the cards, you know, with the forehand back in and serve like Sabalinka, you know, so, and the game's going to be faster down the road.
14:36
So I'm way ahead of the curve.
And it's exciting simply because maybe I'm saving the best for last 'cause I never seen someone with this much potential, OK.
But at the end of the day, OK, you got it.
14:51
It's all perspective.
You control the situation.
Don't let it control you.
And it's very hard.
Listen, no one's an alien.
Everybody is going to, you know, feel a certain way.
You can get mad.
When I had Roddick, he'd get mad, but the next point he got more determined.
15:09
Very different, OK, Where some people, they could check out and they're gone.
You know that it could.
You can actually see it on TV, the momentum swing and so on.
And no one's perfect.
Everybody has their moment.
It's just greatness stays in that ideal performance state longer.
15:26
And if you watch the people at the top, and I tell the kids all the time, listen, if you don't listen to me, look what greatness does.
Imitate greatness.
Look how they respond to failure.
Don't look all they got a good forehand or backhand or syrup.
Look how they handle failure.
15:44
OK.
And play the next point.
You know, where you could go to a junior tournament, I mean, I could walk around and just say he's winning, she's winning, she's losing, he's winning by just how the people look.
I wouldn't even know what's going on.
And this is a very difficult thing to get across the kids because we all try to learn through physical things, harder work, more repetition, sweat, but to train the mind.
16:11
And this is what I do with the kids all the time.
And when they buy in, especially if they have other boxes checked, you know that that's the ultimate student.
You know what I mean?
That's the ultimate student.
Because this is what separates grade from good.
16:28
It's not that he had a better serve.
He had a better You got to have more boxes checked.
You got to have a thoroughbred to win the Derby.
I get all that.
But to get there is one thing to stay there.
That's rare, air, and that's what you see with these guys.
16:44
Or Serena, OK.
It's just very, very different.
And the number one thing that I try to get everybody to do is to be the best competitor they can be, OK?
That should be the number one goal of any coach, mentor or parent if you're all about the competition.
17:04
And that's why I knew Roddick would be very good.
It's like just a feisty little mosquito.
When I had the guy, he was all about the competition.
And when you're all about the competition, you don't check out as much.
You know, you don't want to give away candy and free points and disappear.
17:21
You'll have your moments, but that's the most important thing.
Don't go away.
Don't go away.
And this is what I try to teach the kids because, you know, a match could change in the blink of an eye like all sports, you know.
And so this is the hardest thing to to get the kids understand.
17:39
And believe it or not, it's even harder for the parents because maybe they don't have a super athletic background and they don't understand the psychology involved in that, you know?
And then there's another aspect to this.
17:55
Maybe a kid who's never gotten AB in his life and he's very smart, or they're a genius and they get all straight A's.
I'm not saying that can't help, but they might analyze things so much they just can't understand that your job description really is run, sweat and shut up.
18:15
And with some kids, not in that order.
OK, That's kind of what I tell them.
So, yeah, no, this is this is The X Factor.
And no one can present that and wrap it to the kids better than Rick Macy, even better than a sports psychologist because I I know how to talk to the kids and how to how to put this thing together.
18:35
And if they buy in, they're going to become the best they can be.
It's you said something, I mean, you said many things there that gave me aha moments, but one specific 1 you mentioned about loving the competition.
18:46
Love the competition
It's so true, right?
I mean, if your goal is to love winning, then when you're losing, that motivation is gone because your trophy, what you're, what you're aiming for seems so far away and getting further.
Whereas when you love the competition, if you're losing, you actually have more to give because now you're like, you have even more to compete to try to get to the finish line.
19:07
And so I can see that, especially when I think about players like Nadal and others who it feels like more than any other player in history, I have never seen a professional player that played every single point like it was match point.
19:24
It just he gave the effort, he gave the the the heart, everything about every single.
I never saw him tank a point or just give up a set because he had it one or anything like that.
He was always in it at every single point.
His body took a toll for it.
But you could see that fire with every bounce of the ball.
19:43
Absolutely.
You know, and that's why I said, you know, copy him.
And you know what?
Eager did that.
Eager did that.
OK.
She wanted to do everything like Nadal, but that takes such discipline.
And we all know that if you don't have self-discipline, you're not going to be good at anything.
20:00
You'll be all over the map.
Or here's someone eager she'll going to do just like Rafa, you know, and because she had other attributes, but no, he's the he's the ultimate, you know, he's the ultimate in that category.
Bulletproof.
20:16
You know, just bulletproof.
And you can't say, well, I could be bulletproof if I was that fast or had a forehand like that or whatever.
No, it's not on the outside, it's the inside.
He didn't have the best serve, none of the best.
Bali backhand was good.
It wasn't like one of the top 25 on the tour.
20:34
His forehand was OK, but his mind and what happened is when you get in that routine, like I said, you become that machine.
Then people, especially when they played him on clay, but before the match even started, they know it's going to be breakfast, lunch and dinner.
20:53
We're going to be here a while.
And it was just like, you know, the guys, 112 and three at Roland Garros, you know, 14 French Open title.
So that didn't happen by accident.
A lot of those, the people almost mailed it in that they were going to lose before the match because he set that over a period of time.
21:13
And it cuts the other way.
If people know you check out or you get angry or whatever, they'll hang in there longer.
You know, they know they're you're going to give them some candy.
So I mean, Jimmy Connor's way back in the day, they knew that he wasn't going to give up.
And these are the qualities.
21:28
The only thing you got control over is your attitude.
That's it.
Maybe your ball toss.
You don't have control over anything else.
And I tell the kids all the time, if you were losing 6 O3 O could you be having a great time?
And most of them say no.
21:44
And you could, if you're all about the competition, you're enjoying the competition, you're doing the best you can, that's all you can ask.
That's all you can ask.
You know, you can't just feel great when things are going good.
You got to feel great when things are going bad.
It's a 360 flip mentally.
22:01
And any competitor will tell you that it's the hardest thing to do OK.
And I remember since you brought up Nadal, I remember what time he was playing the Canadian Open and he lost the first set 6 O OK, very uncommon.
22:16
And so he runs back out as he always did, you know, runs back out for the second set.
And both announcers at the same time said who you put your money on to win the match.
Now, most people that lost six O it'd be the other guy.
And they both said at the same time, Rafa.
22:34
And he did.
He came back.
And so this is what I'm trying to get the kids to understand.
It's the hardest thing not only in tennis, but the game of life.
Because we all have problems.
How we react to them is very different.
22:50
And there's a whole landscape of ways to react to a problem on the tennis court.
If you can't remember to forget, you'll never be the best you can be.
Yeah, that's incredible.
I mean, it's such a psychology of poker too, because here I am, I just beat Rafael Nadal 60 first set and he sprints out there as if he's winning.
23:12
But you already know that he's not going away.
And just the fact that, you know, I mean, listen, at that level, they're not going to go go away, but some people do.
But with him, you just, but that was done long ago, you know, and you, you build that, you build that and your your mind's had a whole different level like these elite athletes.
23:33
And I'm talking about greatness.
You know, everybody's good.
They're all good.
Anybody can beat anybody.
But greatness is rare air.
And they've come as close to mastering the mental part, you know, and it comes down to those key moments because, listen, when you play a tennis match, Nadal, Feder, Djokovic, they're losing 45% of the points.
23:56
People go, whoa, really?
But they win 80 some percent of the matches.
So they're losing 45%.
They're winning 55%.
So there's a lot of stuff that goes on there that separates great from good, you know what I'm saying?
And that's what people, they're startled when I start throwing these facts out.
24:15
But you got it every day.
Get into that routine, train your mind to be that way.
What you do out the court, that's something different.
But bang, when you go on the court, you got to be able to flip that switch.
And like I said, if you're all about the competition, you have a tendency to do some of these things more naturally.
24:34
Everybody's competitive, but some people then just become better competitive force.
When I think about what you're talking about, it all makes logical sense.
But to put that all into practice, one of the things that's challenging in your world, I can only imagine is that you see probably thousands of players, juniors and so on every single year, right?
24:58
How to select the right players to train with Rick
So at a certain point, you, Rick Mackie, only have so much time in the day.
You can't train them all.
And so then and you mentioned before that, you know, certain players have all the check boxes checked off and we talked about mental.
I'm sure there's some physicality to it, but.
25:13
Speaker 2
How do you?
25:14
Speaker 1
Funnel down to the 5 or 10 or even 20 that you're going to dedicate your specific time to.
Considering that you probably see hundreds if not more every single year that are coming to you saying I want to be trained by Rick Mackey.
So what are what is that criteria?
25:29
What's the selection process you go by to say this is the one that I want to dedicate some time to?
You know, I it's not really like that.
Here's what I do.
I teach anybody.
I would teach you, I teach adults.
I teach the number 180 year old guy in the country.
25:46
He used to hit flat as a pancake like Jimmy Connor and I taught him the ATP forehand.
He goes, Rick, that's the first time in 70 years I hit top spin.
You know, I can do magic in 5 minutes.
So no, I just love helping anybody.
So with kids, your number one goal that's shoot for a college scholarship and go to college free.
26:05
That should be everybody's goal.
Even nowadays.
I mean, listen, some of these kids are getting 50, a hundred, $150,000.
You're getting paid to go to school if you have a high enough ranking because they changed all this stuff.
So I don't really say this, this and this, OK?
26:24
What I do is, like I said, I have one girl now that I not only coach, but I represent her.
And she, I have no doubt, barring injury, she's going to be #1 in the world someday.
OK, now forget her for a second.
26:39
There's many other kids, the best in the country.
They're going to play pro tennis.
I help them when I can.
I help everybody.
But I have to run a business, you know, I have an Academy.
There's twelve other coaches, so I don't just like work with great players.
26:56
I do spend as much time as I can with them.
But there's hitting partners, there's Taekwondo, there's boxing, there's fitness, there's other elements that go into the package.
But at the end of the day, the fact that I have a contractual relationship with this one, kind of like I did with the Williams, is that's a little different because I do give as much time as I can to that.
27:19
But I don't really say you, you, you, I don't really do that.
I've done it with this girl Vlada, and I really haven't done that, believe it or not, since the Williams's.
It's one thing to say I think you're better.
It's another thing to put up your chair, you know, to fund the project like you saw in King Richard.
27:39
That's a whole different animal.
And I could have been wrong, you know, to put hundreds of thousands or $1,000,000 into training plus my time, you know, because I teach 50 hours a week.
I do probably 20 hours a month Zoom with people all over the world in the parking lot at 4:00 in the morning at the, you know, so I do, I teach anybody, but it's not just potential super superstar, but I do help people on the pro tour.
28:07
But it's not like I'm saying I'm taking these 10 people.
It's not like that.
I teach anybody simply because that's what I like to do and I set the foundation mentally and biomechanically.
And that's why more kids come here, especially under 14, because once you have the base and I can get that, then wherever it goes from there, I know I've made a difference in someone's not only their tennis game but their life.
28:35
How to keep a child from burning out
How do you also?
28:37
Speaker 1
Keep a child from burning out or from feeling the pressure of I have to do well because that can that can affect me at my age, let alone I could only imagine a child with so much pressure and a family.
They're looking at them saying you are the next champion.
28:53
How do you how do you work through that so that it doesn't just corrupt everything that she loves about the sport?
First off, another another great question and you're asking the right guy about this.
Listen, I know this is going to sound crazy to a lot of people watching this.
29:11
You want pressure.
You want pressure.
You want a target on your back.
You want expectations, OK?
This is part of the drill.
You want that.
You want to be, especially with Rick Macy saying it, the chosen one, OK, You want that.
29:28
Now it's up to me and the family to keep it fun.
She's nine years old, OK, and it's a journey, it's a long term process and but I knew that before I even entered into this is she she's not going to burn out.
29:46
What what happens with a lot of kids, Believe it or not, the parents burn out because the kids start losing.
They think they at 12 years old, they're going to Wimbledon and most of the time they're going to be watching it on TV like me and you.
OK, they get 15, they get a boyfriend, a girlfriend, driver's license, their priorities change and they just go to college for free and play college tennis and that's it.
30:10
You know, if, if I don't, this burnout thing, I understand, but I look at it differently and I present it in a very different way with pressure and expectations.
I, I flip the script that whole different way.
But you're right, I think a lot of time people burnout or they lose the desire.
30:29
I think the things around them is that code incorrectly.
The family dynamic has to be amazing.
That's what I love about this family.
They treat her like a little girl.
And you know, the dad knows when to punch and he knows when to hug.
And same with the mom.
It's a psychology that goes on.
30:45
That's what I love about Richard Williams, the best father of all time.
Even though when I said left, he said right.
I should be in the Hall of Fame.
Just put up with that guy.
OK.
But he treated, he treated those kids like little girls.
31:00
They didn't want to rob them of their childhood.
You know, even though there was like a lot of pressure, it's like they were almost legendary before they did anything.
Especially with me saying they're going to be better in cap reality and they're going to change.
Not not only could be #1 in the world and they live in the same house and share the same bedroom.
31:19
I think they'll transcend the sport.
And obviously I was right, you know, But at the end of the day, that could like overwhelm person someone, but I wouldn't enter into it if I even felt that 1%.
No one knows for sure, but I've just done this for so long and I know people and I see things and I feel it.
31:40
It's an innate thing.
And that doesn't mean a speed bump couldn't be smoothed out, but the parents play a big role in this.
It's a little tougher with daddy's little girl.
The guys are a little bit, you know, different, you know, so but no, a burnout usually comes from the parent.
31:58
But I I tell them you, you want to be the one you want pressure.
You got to love pressure, but I wouldn't enter it in this agreement.
She eats pressure for breakfast.
Listen, everybody gets nervous, Jordan, LeBron, it doesn't Serena better.
32:14
Everybody gets nervous, but never be afraid.
That's a different thing.
If you weren't nervous, that mean you didn't have, you don't have passion, you don't care being nervous.
You got to explain.
That's OK, you know.
But once you are all about the competition, that goes away and you're a performer.
32:31
This is a game, it's fun, OK.
And I present it differently now to get them to buy in, that's different.
But if someone listens to every word and that's what I tell her, listen.
Venus and Serena had the best compliment ever when we went to the red carpet in the after party, when we were talking, going back down memory Lade, everybody's like, we were telling stories.
32:56
It was like crazy.
They go, Rick, you and daddy just brainwashed us to become #1 crazy, you know?
Well, I went whoa.
And and we start talking about this and at at 11, I'm talking about Navratilova and Hingis and people older.
33:17
I'm not saying that's really good for 11.
You did great.
Well, I'm talking about people 2025 years old has to be a little better.
She's going to get it.
Here's what's going to the whole language was about, you know, you got to see it to be it.
I was already talking about that even though they were there and the positivity around them.
33:38
And that's how I am, obviously, as a coach.
Listen, I have no one to squeeze.
And I know how loud to say it, when to say it, why to say it, when to say it, who to say it to.
But I do it in a very different way.
You know, I'm always trying to extract greatness every day.
33:55
Because if you're not getting better, I tell her, bye, you're getting worse.
I prefer better.
That's incredible.
It's you're architecting greatness and you're architecting the mind of a competitor and a champion all throughout from the very beginning.
And I can see that actually now that you say get them familiar with the pressure.
34:13
Don't let them learn about it when they hit the tour because that's horrible.
You want them kind of feeling it in little steps leading up so as they can actually handle that burden in that weight when they win Wimbledon or any number of tournaments.
You know what, let me let me jump in because there was something that you said earlier and I tell people all the time, if you were hitting back and forth with Alcarez, say hitting back and forth and you hit it in the net, you'd feel a certain way.
34:42
And if you're hitting back and forth, say you were 15 years old, you're hitting back and forth with a nine year old and you hit in the net.
Would you feel the same way?
And everyone, everybody says they would feel different.
And I said, but you hit it in the net, see, it's perspective.
35:01
But they feel different because of who they hit the net against.
OK, where people that I can get in their head and get them looking at it differently, like the Williams's like whoever, like Blotta.
No, it's a mistake.
35:16
See, I want them to think and act mentally like Rick Macy.
Remember, I've said I'm more of a life coach, but everybody says the same thing.
Or when people play double s, when people play singles, they make a mistake, there's a certain reaction, or maybe they make a couple mistake, they feel a certain way and there's a reaction.
35:35
But watch when they play double S, they miss a ball, they immediately, because they have they have a therapist on the court with them.
They immediately go give a hi-fi, a hug, a kiss or a handshake.
And that emotion is out the window because they're letting something control them.
35:51
That's why a lot of guys make it and pro double s and not singles.
It's not because of their serve for him back in her movement.
It's the mental part.
No one at 12 saying I want to be one of the best double S players in the world.
They're all thinking singles, but they end up playing double S and it's you got to remember to forget and you got to do that over a couple hour period of time.
36:14
That's why when you see the Grand Slams, if you go back in time, you never have a guy come out of nowhere and win these things.
It was always Nadal, Djokovic, Federer.
You never have it because three out of five, that's even more of a mental battle, you know what I mean?
36:31
It's not like 2 out of three.
A big server, you could lose 6 and 6, I get it, but it comes such a mental thing.
But win it.
You might upset an Alcarez or a Sinner or you might pull an upset, but are you going to be able to keep going and win it?
You you can't find any tournament with the guys that that happens.
36:50
And that just reinforces what I'm saying about the mental part.
And that's why you see the best players in the Grand Slams, because it's three out of five always win those things.
Yeah, I can definitely see that.
And it's obviously different players have different strengths and weapons.
37:08
Some have amazing forehand, some amazing serves.
But I think that as tennis has evolved since I was a kid, it seems like everybody's got a great forehand now.
Everybody's got a great serve, and yet what differentiates these players, You know, and from my level, again, I played in college, so I was better than your average person, but I was nowhere close to these guys.
37:28
So when I watched Professionals, I realized that making it to the top 100 of the world is already a superhuman feat.
But climbing from there to the top 20 or the top ten and even the top three, there's something exponentially rare.
37:43
But then even when you look at the top three and now you think to become number one and to stay there, it feels like you need a gear that almost defies explanation.
It's like you look at the difference between 1-2 and three and, and the rest of the field, at least for the last 20 years, it seems miles of a difference, right.
38:04
And so that's, I think that X Factor you're talking about.
It's it's the psychology, but it's the whole package.
It's like psychology is the perseverance.
It's obviously the physicality because at this point players look more like sprinters or anything else.
They get to balls that I would have thought were impossible when I was a kid, but they get to them now and they hit them for winters.
38:23
But they have this just this amazing package.
When you look at Alcaraz, for example, or Sinner, they have such imperceptible weaknesses.
Like for me, Alcaraz, I look at him, he's a complete package.
He just kind of like loses focus and likes to play around out there, which is great.
38:40
He's a young kid, he's enjoying it, but he doesn't have like the stay on top and and destroy the appointed like a Sinner does because Alcaraz likes to do the fancy shots and sometimes it gets him in trouble.
But that to me is like maybe a little bit of a weakness if there is anything that can be perceived.
38:56
Well, the first time you know you, you've been around the block.
You know what you're talking about here.
But let me let me back the truck up to Alcarez.
Generational talent like we haven't seen the last 25 years.
The Spanish magician.
Listen, I what you're saying is true, but you got to remember one thing, because he has the whole entree, he can do everything and he has turbo makeup speed from outer space, OK?
39:26
And he has so many options and they're not rentals, he owns them.
So when you have that, he's going to be more of a shop maker at times or a risk taker times.
But then again, he has four grand Slams, you know, and he's 21.
39:44
No one's done that.
Not Nadal, Joker, Joker, Federer.
No, none of these guys have done that.
So you got to understand it cuts both ways.
But if he's maybe off a little bit, he's human.
No one's going undefeated.
I'm sitting here right now, both him and Sinner will be double digit grand slams.
40:02
OK, so Carlos is upside and he's beating Sinner the last what, last three times?
You got to understand he has more he's bringing to the table, but he might have some bad losses because.
He's so confident in doing so many things.
40:19
And here we are.
Here I am like, you know, throwing a little dagger at the guy, which is insane.
I've never seen like it.
And I've seen everybody live and in color.
This is a whole different animal.
And the makeup speed.
And he's a Broadway performer with a racket in his hand, and he can do everything.
40:40
But now you got Sinner, you know, the Italian flamethrower, both sides rock solids, biomechanically just locked and a great serve and so and he can move great.
Remember, he was national skiing champion downhill at age 11.
40:57
OK, So his body's a little different.
He gets in and out of the corner like he's doing the slalom.
You got to understand there's some genetics there.
And he's just kind of has that like a rock and he's not going to disappear mentally and back on center.
41:13
The fact that he got banned, that's a whole nother podcast.
It made him stronger.
Sometimes adversity, OK, can make you grow as an athlete.
And for some people that could really mess you up.
41:29
And he got stronger through that.
And when he came back to get all the way to the finals and play the way he's been playing, it's crazy for do not doing that for three months.
You're not like just like in a team competition.
This is pro tennis, OK, very different.
41:46
So that just shows you mentally.
But he's not doing as many.
I shouldn't say he's not doing as many things.
He has the three big ticket items to serve, the four in a backhand and it's all high level.
OK, Then he has the mind.
So if you're out there, like Root said, I was playing against a human ball machine.
42:06
So he's not going to beat himself unless something happens that we don't know about, you know, the night before or whatever.
So his game is going to look a little different.
But I'm just telling you, Alcarez is on another level as far as where this can go.
42:23
But right now you got the Big 2 and 10 years from now, you know both these guys will be way into double digit Grand Slams and we'll be talking about him like Nadal, Federer and Djokovic.
Well, it's amazing how they elevate each other to that greatness too, right?
42:38
I think Federer would have never been Federer if he didn't have Nadal or Djokovic.
And same for the other guys.
It's like that level of competition and you see it significantly influenced when one of them retires.
I mean, granted, they're all in like the very latter stage of their career, but when Federer retired, you saw a little spark go away from Djokovic and from Nidal.
43:01
And then Nidal retires and you see that spark away from Djokovic.
There's physical injuries and things like that as well.
But it doesn't seem like there is hungry anymore.
Because they lost their muse or their rival that they grew up trying to beat that whole time, right?
43:19
Yeah, I know.
Listen, when you go back to Alcarez and Sinner, the the best coach for each of them is each other.
It's not their actual coach, you know what I mean?
And everybody's trying to get the edge.
Everybody's trying to improve.
Even joke of it, he's trying to make things better at age 38 and just won his hundred tournament, you know, the other day in Geneva.
43:39
They're always trying to get better.
But you got Alcarez and Sinner.
It's now the big two and they're helping each other go to another level, you know, and they can use the other one's strength.
Like I'm sure they're talking to him.
Listen, Sinner doesn't go away.
43:54
He's locked in Da da, da, da da.
They, they play that card as a motivational tool And flip side, look what Carlos can do.
You know, he'll use the drop a lot more.
He'll, he comes in when you're out of position, You know, he, he does all these subtle nuances.
44:13
And I'm sure Sinner worked on all those little motor skills during the time, the three months he was, you know, suspended.
So that's what you, that's what you want.
Because when you got someone right there with you, as we all know, competition breeds more competition.
44:29
And that's what really happened with the Dow, Federer and Djokovic.
And they just sleep, lift each other to new heights.
You see, since I started playing or, or even watching as a kid, the sport has changed so much in the last decade, but it's also changed in the last, you know, since the 70s and 80s when I was watching as a little kid, you know, I can think of, I remember seeing McEnroe play and then eventually seeing Stefan Edberg, which was one of my favorites against Boris Becker all the way through Sampras and Agassi and then Federer and now Alcaraz.
45:03
And the game's changed significantly.
I mean, even in the way that we would teach strokes, how you stand for the forehand, it would always be closed off and make sure you swing from low to high.
Now the forehand people are much more open and the swing is totally different.
Backhand serves all that changes and presumably it'll keep evolving overtime.
45:20
As you think about where you're training this 9 year old Ukrainian now and you think about where the sport is kind of going towards and where it'll be where she hits the professional scene.
45:31
How do you train a 9 year old?
Does that affect you?
And you're thinking about where the puck is going and how the sport will be then?
Or do you just much more focus on the player and just trying to maximize everything they can do?
Because if they're that great, they might actually have an influence in with the direction that the sport goes as well, Right, good point.
45:49
First up, First up, you're a great question again.
And you're you're asking the right guy because now we're getting into the bio mechanics, OK, of what's happening.
Stroke mechanics is at an all time high.
But tennis now is like a game of emergencies, OK?
46:06
What I mean by that because of the technology, the rackets are like AK47, the strings are so explosive to get more spin and more pop.
The athletes like every other sport, football, baseball, basketball, bigger, stronger, faster.
46:22
OK, but the dimensions of the court are the same, the rules are the same, so it's more physical.
Think about it, we do more from a sport science nowadays, but people get more injured nowadays.
Doesn't make sense.
We're back in the day you didn't have this many injuries.
46:38
So the point I'm trying to make is the you talk about, you know, turn, step, hit or turn sideways.
It depends on the speed of the ball.
If the ball is slow and it's in front of you and the sun's shining, sure you can step in like old school, but you're going to probably you're out of necessity.
46:57
You got to play more of a semi or an open stance off both wings.
And you saw this and I knew where this was going with Venus.
She hit open stance on both side the way back when ahead of the curve.
But yeah, open stance, whenever you hit open stance, OK, you're going to have what we call more angular momentum.
47:16
You can actually hit the ball harder rotating on an axis.
Then you can go on linear, which is straight.
Now the stroke has changed where there's actually, I don't want to go too deep here, There's actually 2 pronations that occur when you take the racket back, it's inverted to the outside and when you pull it, it flips down and back and then it pronates again.
47:37
Or before it was just like an RA rainbow, a banana, a candy cane, a Ferris wheel, letter C, whatever, you know, and you were smooth and you were playing with wood rackets or not that powerful racket.
So there's been adaptations and modification to obviously the technology and that influences the the way people hit the ball.
48:01
But me and my partner, Doctor Brian Gordon, he's probably the number one sports science guy in the world.
OK, We were on the cutting edge of this.
You know, 17 years ago I did a video for USPTA that went viral.
People said, well, that's just two analysis to your analyzing.
48:18
I was talking about tap the dog, the pull the flip where the racket was and people weren't ready for it.
But I think 5 million views were ready for it and it was the best selling video in the USPTA.
People didn't.
I was explaining what was happening on the tour.
48:34
But people, unfortunately, they teach others the way they were taught and people don't like to continue their education.
Now, to answer your question, can where's this going with Vlada?
OK, I've always trained girls a little different.
48:50
Cut the court, don't give up the baseline.
Take the ball right off the bounce.
You deal the cards, you're running the show.
Venus, Serena, Capriotti, Sharapova, Canon, Meskina Pierce, all cut from the same cloth, different body type, different genetics, but Vlada is even more different.
49:10
She takes the ball off the bounce almost like a short hop, and she's already cutting the cord on the backhand.
And as I sit here today and you'll go back and look at this video, her backhand cross court right off the bounce better than anybody in Pro Tour right now.
49:27
What I mean by that is I can see what's she's going to grow into, you know, her size and strength, Obviously her better backhand.
I'm just saying her intention weights always forward, whether it's open or closed.
As soon as it hit, boom, she's playing a ball, not a person.
49:45
And that's what I'm working on with the forehand.
Because tennis, is it more today a game of time.
It's a game of emergency.
As I said earlier, it's like advanced pinball and steroids.
And if you can move, that means if you had a bad shot and you're nervous, you can live another day, OK?
50:01
That's why the Williams's could, even if they were nervous, they could run around like a squirrel and still win matches because they had this speed.
If you got that in your back pocket, like Alcarez and Sinner and all these guys.
So, yeah, I'm projecting where this is going to go.
I think the game, you got to have everything.
50:19
You got to be able to chip it, dip it, flip it, RIP it.
You got to have the slice.
You got to be able to do everything.
And I think Andrava, she is already changing the game because she can do everything besties when she's in trouble.
50:34
And Alcarres has changed the game not only for the other pros.
They used to drop more.
He's changed the way the game is being taught.
Before, if you missed a drop shot, it was like, why are you trying that, you knucklehead?
Now it's like, OK, you know, you got to understand he's missed more drop shots at age 789 and 10 than anybody in the world.
50:57
And that's why on the pro tour, he makes more with more disguise and deception.
So the players, believe it or not, a lot of times teach the coaches the 98% that maybe don't understand the bio mechanics or they're not willing to improve their education.
51:14
You know, there's a difference between optimal and just good, you know, And that's what I try to do with everybody.
It's not cloning, it's not one-size-fits-all, but you got to be in the neighborhood.
And what, what do you think of the state of US competitiveness?
51:34
The state of US competitiveness
the US dominated back in the 90s with Sampras and Agassi and Courier and Chang and so on.
And then Federer came around and then it became kind of like the era of Europe.
And we have they've, it's, it's never looked back.
51:50
Do you see the level of talent right now at the junior level or even earlier?
I mean, you mentioned this Ukrainian girl, She's obviously from the Ukraine.
Do you see the US level of competitiveness in in professional tennis rising back to where it was back then anytime soon?
52:08
No, I do not.
But let me expand upon that a little bit.
Back then, the guys you talked about, OK, tennis now is so global, you know, you could, you could have someone from some island, you know, and he's the first player from Lebanon or this place or whatever, be top 50.
52:27
So if you're an athlete and you have an opportunity, it's a great way to make a living.
So the game is much different than Courier Agassi Chang, you know, Sanford Connors McEnroe is very, very different.
52:43
So that ship is sailed now with all the people that play tennis in this country.
OK, The depth that we have right now, I'll talk with the men first is never been better.
But do I see someone winning a Grand Slam?
53:01
Yeah, they might be able to grab one.
Injury to Alcaraz or center or something breaks a certain way, you might grab one.
But could anybody get there and stay there?
I don't see it.
OK.
And the reason why is this.
53:17
They're unique athletes, OK?
They go to football, They go to basketball, OK?
Listen, if I had LeBron James at 10 years old, I guarantee I could have made him number one in the world.
No doubt.
You imagine having, you know, Federer forehand and erotic serve and a Djokovic backhand on 68250 and run and jump like that.
53:40
With that competitiveness, Game over.
Will we get that type of athlete?
Maybe, But they don't talent search for that and and plus it's expensive.
If you got to do it on your own, they go to other sports.
53:56
You can pick up a ball and just start firing hoops or play football.
So we don't get the elite athlete, OK.
We don't get that athlete, OK.
And people don't realize Nadal, Federer and Djokovic, they're great athletes.
54:11
People don't look at it.
An athlete to me is from the head to the toe.
It's not just who can jump the highest, OK, or run the fastest.
Cause how many grand slams does monfies have?
How many grand slams does curious have donut?
So you see, so, but you got to get the premium athlete.
54:32
If you can optimal stroke mechanics, OK, train them mentally, then that will happen.
But it's a very tough thing right now because it's everything's so global and the best athletes and it's so physical.
54:47
Anybody can beat anybody.
Now the women, it's a little different because it's not as physical.
Can we have Boko Goff good friends with her father?
Her little brother plays in the Academy.
He's the number one middle school quarterback in the United States.
55:04
I mean, you talk about genetics and if that whole household, they're probably, they're probably beating each other up all the, I mean, that's a whole another animal.
And she's a great athlete.
Even though there's holes in her game, her backbone is incredible.
Her resiliency is unreal.
55:21
But there's a few holes that in her game.
We'll see if that gets corrected.
But women's tennis has never looked better.
There's a lot of them in the mix.
It's, but it's not as physical, you know, and they're athletes, but there's more opportunity for the male athlete in this country.
55:39
The best.
I mean, the cream of the crop, they go into other sports.
But if we get a couple, there's no doubt someone could win a Grand Slam since my old student, Andy Roddick, did, you know, in 2000 or whatever.
55:55
Oh, yeah.
You know Rick, you you have shared in the greatest moments in tennis history, watching your players lift Grand Slam trophies, dominate the world stage, and defy the odds.
56:09
Rick's favorite moments in his career
With so much success under your belt, I imagine that winds start to blend together over time.
But are there a few moments that stand out to you?
Times that felt especially personal, emotional or deeply fulfilling when you look back at this incredible career that you've had building champions over the last 2-3 decades.
56:30
Well, my, my best time of all is right now being here with you.
So I'm just bang.
I'm always like that.
I'm lasered in on whatever there.
But no, listen, people ask me all the time before I answer that question, who's my favorite student of all time?
56:48
And they think it's going to be like Venus, Serena or someone like that.
It's not.
It's who's ever on the other side of the net, that hour, that minute, that second.
And that's the way I feel.
And the students can feel that.
And that's how you lift others and extract greatness when you as a coach or mentor or a father figure can can get that out of people.
57:09
But probably if I had to say, well, there'll be a couple.
You know, when I took Jennifer Capriotti to the girls 18 hard courts as a 12 year old, OK, her parents didn't even want to.
Yeah, that's a record that still stands today.
57:25
She didn't want her.
I don't want my little baby to get hurt.
And she won that tournament, OK, as a 12 year old, since that was in 1988.
Record still stands today.
And, you know, so she shook the girl's hand, came right up in the crowd and hugged me.
57:40
And, you know, so that would be near the top.
But obviously it had to be with Venus because Venus and Serena were like my own daughters, you know, and, and when you do something for four years, or well, it was 3 1/2 before that debut and you're not getting paid and you're doing all this and you could be wrong and you're gearing up for the future.
58:07
Listen, she wouldn't even have played that tournament if they wouldn't have changed the age eligibility rule in 1994.
They changed it because of the Capriotti burnout or whatever, and you had to turn pro.
So I told Richard, hey, either got to turn pro, OK, or we got to wait and play little tournaments in the future.
58:27
And I knew Richard, he didn't want anybody dictating anything to him.
So he'd OK, we got to turn pro.
Listen, I didn't know if she's going to freak out, lose.
Oh no, I didn't know what was going to happen.
I just knew they would see some little girl.
Well, she wasn't little.
She was 510.
Run like the wind, be a gazelle, lot of open stance, 112 mile an hour, serve as a 14 year old and they're going to say this, This kids going to be great someday.
58:53
And Rick saying her little sister might even be better.
So I knew that's what's going to happen.
But listen, she hadn't played a match in 3 1/2 years.
So you got to understand 6 hours a day, five days a week, 3 1/2 years training, that's it.
59:10
Just playing matches against coaches.
And now she's going to jump into a pro tournament and she beats 57 in the world, as you saw in the movie 4 and three, Sean Stafford.
Then the next night, I mean that that in itself was like EPI.
59:26
Next night she played Sanchez number one in the world.
She's up 6331.
I'm there with the late great Bud Collins.
OK, Rick, this is better than the 69 Mets.
This is better than Rocky Balboa.
This is Ali Frazier, greatest upset in the history of sports.
59:42
You walk off the court, you never play a match.
You enter a pro tournament and you beat number one in the world.
Give me a break.
See, I knew what was inside this little girl.
Anyway, she end up losing the match.
But that moment that she won the first match and she's jumping up and down like a human Pogo stick, and the beads are flying up and down.
1:00:05
You got to understand.
It was just like, wow.
You know, it's like that, that moment.
And then seven months later, she gets a $12 million contract.
That's incredible.
I mean, it's you know, I could, I could sit here talking to you all day because it's a dream come true.
But I want to be cognizant of time.
1:00:21
So Rick, can I ask you one last question?
1:00:24
Advice for future competitors
If you could give advice to future competitors in this field in tennis, what would that be?
Is, you know, it could be anywhere from juniors to kids aspiring for to play in college or whatever.
You've seen so much of tennis.
You've seen so much of where it's going and what really makes these champions.
1:00:41
Again, if you're thinking about that new generation that says I want to play tennis, what advice would you give them?
Well, First off, another great question.
The only thing you got control over and I mentioned is your attitude.
That's it.
That's the only thing you got control over and positive, the best of the best of all the rest are the most positive creatures that ever walked the face of the earth, OK?
1:01:05
Because you have a choice, OK?
And all these guys that are great in any profession are so positive.
So it's the mental part, you know, You control the situation.
Don't let it control you, OK?
Your attitude is the most important thing and you got to love the competition.
1:01:25
You got to love the competition.
That's why you're doing it.
It's fun, it's a game.
You've got to keep that perspective.
And you should have a journal and look at it every day.
I don't even mind if you talk to that guy in the mirror every day and remind yourself of that.
1:01:40
You know, people let too many things go into their head, OK, We're aware of what goes into our mouth, but not into our head.
And everybody needs understand to be the best you can be.
It's all about handling stuff and and being positive and so anybody out there you want, if you're being the best competitor you can be, the other things will fall into place.
1:02:05
Tremendous words to live by.
In full honesty, I feel like I'm a better human being for having spoken to you for this last hour.
Rick, this has been such a privilege and an honor.
You've influenced the the sport globally in such tremendous and material ways.
1:02:24
Thank you for everything that you've done.
Thank you for being a part of this interview, for being a part of this podcast.
No thanks.
It is a lot of fun and we'll definitely, we'll definitely do it again.
