MMA: Krav Maga
The Business of Survival: Lessons from the Front Lines of Self-Defense
In the rawest form of survival of the fittest, there’s no margin for error—only adapt or be overcome. In this episode, we sit down with Dennis Amato, a world-renowned Krav Maga expert and elite MMA trainer who has spent over 20 years preparing special forces, law enforcement, and civilians for life-or-death situations.
From the evolution of mixed martial arts to the tactical innovations in military training, Dennis unpacks how high-stakes environments demand relentless adaptability, fast learning, and clear strategic thinking. These aren’t just lessons in combat—they’re principles of survival that apply to organizations facing disruption, competition, and rapid change. When the stakes are high, the most resilient don't just fight—they evolve.
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Today I'm really excited to be interviewing Dennis Amato.
He's he's not only an elite mixed martial arts trainer, but he's a good friend of mine.
Dennis Amato's career in mixed martial arts started in 1999 at the first Krav Maga school in New England.
1:31
Dennis quickly earned his instructor certification and became a partner in the school that eventually moved to Boston, MA.
During this time, Dennis trained with some of the most elite Krav Maga coaches in the world, eventually working with them to train military, law enforcement, and civilian students throughout the US.
1:48
Dennis, now a fourth degree black belt, focuses his time in developing the practice to cope with modern threats, mentoring advanced practitioners, and training elite law enforcement departments in the art of self-defense.
Dennis, thank you for being here and welcome to a Natural Selection No.
2:03
Speaker 1
Thanks for having me, Nick.
2:05
Speaker 2
I'm really excited by this because you know, as you and I have spoken about this, you know, the premise behind what I'm writing in this podcast is the idea that corporate and organizational innovation follows the, the pattern of natural selection and evolution with the competition, the threats, the opportunities and, and all of it under a very fierce competitive environment, if you will.
2:30
And and so with that, thinking about self-defense and threats out in the world and how you evolve martial arts was really compelling to me, especially given how much I've learned from you in in in Krav Maga over the last few years.
2:47
So just to level set and to start everybody off in the right path, could you please tell us what business you're in and what your role is within that?
2:58
What is Dennis’s business?
Sure, I'm in the martial arts business.
Krav Maga is in Israeli martial art, so my job is obviously teaching our students the art of Krav Maga.
And as a business owner, I'm in charge of marketing curriculum, lesson plans, training the coaches, answering phone calls, paying bills, cleaning the school.
3:24
You know, everything that comes along with with running a small business.
3:28
Speaker 2
And, and, and for people that may not be familiar because, you know, you hear about mixed martial arts and, and people think UFC, right?
3:36
History of Krav Maga
So for people, there are people listening here that I've never heard of Krav Maga.
Can you tell us a little bit about maybe some of the history of Krav Maga and and what it means to you?
3:45
Speaker 1
Sure.
I mean, Krav Maga was maybe one of the first, I guess you would say, let's quote a mixed martial art.
Krav Maga was born in Israel, and it started with a man named Amy Lichtenfeld.
He was born and raised in Czechoslovakia during the before the 1940s.
4:05
So you can imagine being Jewish and around that time there was a lot of racism and and violence in his neighborhoods and things like that.
But he was also an athlete.
His father was a police officer.
So, but he quickly realized that street fights and sport fighting were totally different.
4:25
And and then when his father moved to Israel to start the Israeli Defense Forces to become the trainer, they developed a system that was based on reality, not sport like boxing and stuff like that was based on sports.
4:42
And then people on the street aren't going by rules.
So they needed a system that everybody could do because they're building their civilian army.
It needs to be learned quickly, which is something because I mean, unfortunately they were fighting every day, so they needed a system that their people could learn quickly and actually have to go out and survive and fight a war.
5:05
And most importantly, it had to work.
I mean, you could say you're going to come up with the system and it's going to be easy to learn and you're going to learn it quick and all of this stuff.
But they say you retain less than 15% perhaps of what you've learned in a real life violent encounter when the fight or flight takes over and that shock of your your body, what's going to happen.
5:27
So if you're building an army, 15% is not good odds.
So they need is something that would work be rememberable under stress, something that you can just respond and not have to think so much.
So how did they do that kept it simple.
5:44
Just have a lot of it go.
Your body does certain things under stress anyhow.
You get stung by AB in the leg.
You don't raise your arms up in the air.
You, you, your hands would just what was that?
We'll go right towards the the pain or the sting.
So essentially what Krav Maga would do it make some sort of move off of that natural reaction.
6:01
So you're already 6070% there anyway.
And I'll just kind of turn that into something that that would make the move effective, if that makes sense.
Yeah.
6:12
Speaker 2
Yeah, it makes total sense.
And so I guess from basic principles of Krav Maga then like you said, it's it's based on your natural reaction to a threat.
6:22
Basic principles of Krav Maga
You get stung, you know you do a certain thing.
Then what are some of the basic principles behind the elements of Krav Maga?
6:30
Speaker 1
Sure, will first and foremost address the danger first, whatever it is.
If it's someone trying to stab you, you have to address the knife first, but but by a blocking defense for example.
The second thing is try to attack as simultaneously as possible.
6:45
Block and attack, block and attack.
Become the attacker right away.
We're not being defensive even though we are defending.
Keep attacking soft, vulnerable, fleshy targets that cause damage and you keep attacking, overwhelming your opponent with offense until the threats eliminated and disengage and get away.
7:07
I mean that there's your principles and it's straightforward.
And the thing with principles is the principles won't fail you as some techniques will if you follow some principles.
I mean, a principal could be pick up a chair and smash somebody with it because that does address the danger of someone coming after you, doesn't it doesn't have to be written in a book, let's say grab the chair, pick it up, swing it over the shoulder.
7:29
And the principal itself could just be address the danger.
7:33
Speaker 2
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean more than anything, and This is why I've also been so excited about talking to you about this is because Krav Maga and and many martial arts, they reflect at their core the elements of survival of the fittest, right?
7:48
The importance of mentality in survival
Survival of the fittest doesn't mean how many points you can win or how pretty you make it look.
Survival of the fittest is there is a clear and present potentially mortal danger.
How do you address it in the most efficient and effective way to be able to make it home alive and in the mentality that goes into that?
8:07
Because actually one of the things that Krav has changed the most for me is the mentality.
Honestly, it granted all the skills and everything we talked about that that's all a huge factor because you could have the mentality, but without the skills, you can only go so far.
But you when we do like stress testing or the, the idea that when I first started, I would just Peter out and get tired so quickly because I'd get so nervous when somebody's like laying on top of me and I'd start hyper violating.
8:34
And the only reason why I would keep going is because I would say like, I'm not going to stop.
But between that and where I feel now, which I'm much more collected.
And I know that for as much as I think I have to give, there's always another like 30 or 50% inside of me if like the going gets really, really tough.
8:55
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's fantastic.
You know, and I hear that a lot.
I think that's the most rewarding thing because I, it's not like I, because I teach martial arts, I, I want my students to be tested out on the street and, and hope they get attacked.
That's certainly not the case.
9:11
You know, the most rewarding thing to me is to see how it has changed and improved their lives.
And that's what martial arts really is about.
You know, the dental student who's struggling with their homework and, or feeling overwhelmed is ready to quit.
And then I get an e-mail saying how much the crowd my God classes have helped them with their schooling and how much they're doing better and feel like they can accomplish anything that will to fight and just to keep pushing and not giving up.
9:36
So, you know, that's that to me is super rewarding, yes.
9:40
Speaker 2
So now if we take a couple steps back, you mentioned Krog was a very pragmatic kind of discipline.
9:49
How has Krav Maga evolved over the last 100 years?
It was really about how do we keep our citizens and our military safe.
And you know, the 1930s were 100 years ago.
So how has from from your level and you know at a high level, how has Krav evolved over the last 100 years?
10:07
Speaker 1
Well, first and foremost, you know, before Amy Lichtenfeld died, he wanted to share Krav Maga out of the world as a gift from Israel so so one may walk in peace was his motto.
10:23
You know, the idea is if you you learn how to defend yourself so you don't have to and but it was a military system.
So for him to send it out and come to the United States until the 80s.
10:39
So it had to be adapted right away from military to civilian.
I mean, we're not walking around with M Sixteens and things like that because you know, the military training, a lot of the striking is with the weapon and you know, you're building like a unit.
Yes, they do stuff, punches and stuff, but not like we do in class.
10:58
So right away it had to be adapted to that sort of sense.
The second thing that was most important, one unfortunately isn't around anymore, was how do you share it to the world and not have it be watered down?
11:15
Like how do you get it to be to different places and not have you take your own take on it?
Me put my own take on it, somebody else doing something else and all of a sudden it's not Krav Magar anymore.
So that's when it first came out.
I think one of the smartest things was Krav Maga Worldwide patent it or licensed it.
11:35
So it was a franchise.
Like you couldn't teach it unless you went through Krav Maga Worldwide and got licensed.
And that was a way to kind of keep it taught a certain way, the way it was supposed to be authentic and that type of thing.
So, so that was how it started to kind of be shared with the world and to adapt like that.
11:57
And as time goes on, I mean, the more fighting in Israel, the more the more things that happen the way that they would, let's say, for example, have a knife defense, OK, now they're fighting and they're using a lot and people start to be aware of how, OK, maybe this is how they're fighting.
12:14
So maybe the attack might change.
So we would have to a change or just realizing, you know what, this one, this particular defense hasn't been as successful as we thought it was going to be.
Why?
Let's figure it out and change it.
Like the straight STAB defenses were two different moves with the school and the light bulb type of a moment.
12:34
Well, it wasn't working.
So how do we shorten that movement and make it more of the bring it out to the 45?
12:43
Speaker 2
I and I wonder as I think about, I mean, 100 years ago they were airplanes, but globalization wasn't what it is today.
So now you walk out in the street and you could bump into somebody from Boston just as equally as somebody from Russia or Taiwan or Thailand or any number of countries.
13:02
And so I would imagine that as part of the evolution for Krav Maga as well is both the threats and the opportunities evolved, right?
Because now it's like it wasn't.
The threats weren't so localized, which is like the people trained a certain way in Czechoslovakia back then and maybe they did in Boston or certain way.
13:21
Now it's like my tie and jiu jitsu and all these things started copying out of nowhere.
And it's like, oh, we never saw that move before.
And so I'm sure there was an element of that, of seeing like, oh, OK, that's they've been doing this for 100 years.
This is new to us.
That's a new threat, but it's also a new way of thinking about things.
13:40
Speaker 1
Yeah, yes, yes.
I mean, you think about like, you know, Krav Maga first came to be, you know, when we we we first started saying was like a mixed Marshall out like one of the first.
So what happens?
I mean, Amy was a boxer, he was a wrestler, he was a gymnast.
13:56
You know, he had all of these different experiences as an athlete and a fighter and he fought on the street.
So when you're coming up with a system, well, boxers have the great best punches.
Let's let's make our punches like boxers, you know, Muay Thai with the elbows and the, the, the round kicks and the the head butts.
14:17
You know, those things are, you know, let's incorporate what they do because they have the best in those, you know, Aikido and Judo, you know, for the stand up and to the takedown stuff, there's that involved into it.
You know, nowadays because he was wrestling for the ground element of it, but now it's more jujitsu based because that's more prominent today.
14:40
So you still have the same basic principles.
It's just that the each boxing's evolved.
Even the way boxers stand has evolved, you know, due to like a Muay Thai, you know, you're getting more power on you're left and then you're right.
Your job just isn't a setup anymore because they're standing more square.
14:59
You know, all these little things evolve.
And I think what happens is they steal stuff from each other.
Each martial art is that is, that's what it should be.
You know, for us, you know, martial artists, I know it's survival of the fittest.
And we're a business and we wanna, there's enough people around and not everybody takes martial arts.
15:18
So there's enough of the small population for everyone to be successful in the martial arts business.
And we should help each other if, if we're true martial artists and we should be sharing ideas and we should be helping to make our public safer and more healthy.
And whether they're learning how to defend themselves or they're being stress fee free at their job because they're they have a mind body connection that they never had.
15:41
Speaker 2
Before, yeah, now I can totally see that and especially the the kind of generalist approach of Krav Maga, right, because in in nature, specialized organisms often thrive in stable environments, but they struggle when conditions change.
15:56
And and, you know, kravigai balances some of that specialization, but it also maintains a very general effectiveness.
And this is what I've learned from you and the rest of the crew there, which is that we don't square off like a boxer, you know, because boxers think in very specific ways about what their sport, what it means to survive and compete in their sport.
16:18
They're more bladed, they don't have to worry about kicks, their rules and so on.
Same goes for karate, all the point based systems, jujitsu as well.
You're not worried about getting kicked in the face and stuff like that, Krav, You got to be like, well, everything that goes into it, you got to factor in the threat could be coming from a knife, it could be coming from a punch, you could be coming from a kick, it could be coming from a tackle.
16:40
You know, you've got to like, it's like, you've got to be the almost like the quintessential generalist of mixed martial arts because we're not working within a structured rule base point system.
We're working to survive any kind of a threat.
16:58
Speaker 1
We consider ourselves, we're not a fighting system.
And I think that's one of the things that gets very confused when people talk about Krav Maga.
Well, you know, a Muy Thai guy will crush a Krav Maga guy or a jiu Jitsu guy will crush a Krav Maga guy.
Well, in their world, yeah.
I mean, that's not what we're training for.
17:16
We're emergency room doctors.
It's the way that I look at it.
You know, I don't have a speciality in, well, not a brain surgeon, right?
I, I, I thing is just try to handle maybe triage might be the best thing to try to we could have to handle so many things, right?
17:33
We don't specialize in necessarily one area.
We need to handle multiple different things at once.
Like you're saying, is it a weapon?
Is it multiple attackers?
Is there's buddies involved?
Is it, you know, am I going to be tackled?
17:49
Those are some of the things that we have to deal with.
And if the if it's just a straight up fight, you leave.
You like to fight is ridiculous, right?
You don't have to fight.
The whole thing should be to get away.
18:04
If you have to fight, yes, then we will.
But like I said, that's what principles and let's start coming in.
You know, maybe I'm not going to square up and fight a boxer the way a boxer wants to fight me.
18:17
Speaker 2
It's interesting also how I don't know how it works for other people.
I can only talk about my own personal experience knowing what I know about Krav.
Yes, there's the element that you guys do teach it and reinforce it every time, which is like if you're if you have the option to walk away or run, do it, take it, right.
18:33
Ego
Swallow your pride and leave.
It's better than being in the emergency room or going to jail because you're hurt.
18:37
Speaker 2
Somebody and so it's like there's that element which is like the theoretical, which is like it's absolutely right.
And I do believe in it, but, you know, there's always the ego.
I was much more likely to succumb to that ego before doing CROP for so many different reasons.
18:55
Number one is because of what you said.
It's like, if I can just walk away, who cares what this guy said #2 is because he could hurt me.
Anything can happen #3 is because I could hurt him and end up in jail.
I know it's like, you know, and I'll regret that too.
19:12
And but you know, there's also the element, which is that I don't have anything to prove.
Like I go and get my ass kicked by black belts in the studio a couple times a week, right?
I don't need an extra fight.
Like I, I know how good I am.
I also know how not good I am.
19:28
Like learning to fight.
How so has made me realize, and it's funny because I've I've seen a statistic that say that men overestimate their ability to fight by 400%.
And they run studies, actual studies in the US asking men how likely they would be to win a fight against a grizzly bear.
19:48
And there is a very significant percentage of men, I think it's somewhere like 30, twenty, 30% that think that they could take on a grizzly bear hand to hand battle.
And so like, you know, a lot of what I've done is just showed me how bad I am, right?
And so it's like, why would I want to put myself in a situation where the other guy could be good, he could be bad, but he could still strike and and, you know, get a lucky blow.
20:09
And so there's just so much on the line.
And I just don't feel like I have as much to prove anymore by having learned what I did in your studio, that I think that's an element of self.
Preservation and discipline that I've taken away as well.
20:23
Speaker 1
The one may walk in peace.
You learn self-defense so you don't have to, you know, and there's so many reasons why that goes into it.
A lot of it is as you're right, you know what you realize, you know you're not worth it.
You have a little bit of a confidence about yourself that I don't need to bark like the dog too loud just to hope that they turn and go the other direction.
20:43
You know, you're actually putting yourself in more danger with the puffing up the chest and screaming in someone's facing when you're not prepared to fight sometimes too.
It's sometimes too like when you those, I know we're getting a little off topic, but you know, the loud guy is sometimes the one that you could tell is probably not not the best fighter.
21:02
It's the quiet one with the little smile on the faces.
You got to be careful with the ones that do control their emotions and and know like how many, how many and not that trained fighters aren't criminals or can go out and hurt people.
21:18
But for the most part, when you have trained fighters, they're not the ones that we have to worry about.
Now.
You got to worry about people who may grew up fighting their whole life.
That's different.
People that have been beat up their whole life.
21:34
That's another person that they don't care.
They'll get hit, they don't care.
It's a different person that you're dealing with and usually predators are looking for the weaker person.
They don't want the fight.
21:47
Speaker 2
Yeah, and, you know, right back to survival of the fittest.
I mean, that is definitely very, you know, they, they don't talk about the like the lone gazelle for nothing, right?
Because lions, for as powerful as they are, they're not looking for a fight.
They know that any hunt could land them in a mortal situation where it's like they're not going to survive, you know, and they're all they're trying to do is eat.
22:08
So, so now if we go back to just, you know, the, the evolution of Krav and, and your work within that, you've got now so many different martial arts to be able to draw from and in the society changes, right?
22:19
How to keep Krav Maga relevant and accessible
The threats change, weapons change, you know, and so on.
How do you think about how you keep Krav relevant and competitive, yet at the same time also accessible, right?
Because you're not training, you know, cage fighters, animals, right?
22:39
You're training a police officer and you're training a mom and a professional doctor, right?
So it's like, how do you keep it into something that's relevant and helps them develop their own skills, but at the same time it is still functional in a survival environment.
22:59
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's the, that's the secret, isn't it?
Like how do you, how do you adapt a program to suit everybody's needs?
You know, different, different body types, different shapes, different sizes.
And again, I think that's what the beauty of what Krav Maga is.
I mean, Krav Maga and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, I think of the 2 martial arts that are so they're so different in the art itself, but the principles behind it is the fact that a smaller person can overcome a larger, stronger opponent.
23:35
And that's what Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Krav Maga kind of based their whole principles on.
It has to work for the smallest person.
So when you're working with smaller people and larger, a police officer or someone that's more athletic, it, it's really, I got to say, it doesn't matter because of the way that we train that that makes any sense.
23:59
How do you make it work for everybody?
You got to keep them safe in class.
You know, it's not the fight.
I think that is the most important thing because it isn't military.
And, and I made the mistake when I first started teaching Krav Maga, I was teaching it like military.
24:16
You go in there, the voice is very stern.
You're just yelling.
Everything's go, go, go, go, go, go.
You're going until you throw up.
If someone gets hurt, you know, go sit in the corner, put some ice on it.
There was a lot more contact and stuff that we did back then.
And then you start seeing injuries mound up, including my own, and you can't train.
24:39
So then you heal up, you start the process over again, and then you get injured again.
And you're on this roller coaster ride that OK, you get to a point where I'm super aggressive and I'm training really hardcore and I'm doing this and then I get hurt and you got to start over.
So it becomes a just becomes a vicious cycle.
24:57
You're not getting anywhere other than breaking your body down and you're eventually going to quit anyway.
So how do you make it?
The second thing is, is most people only training for two hours a week.
That's our best students.
25:13
So over the course of what, 6 months, you maybe you got 48 hours of training in.
That's a full, that's just one week of work and you're fighting to defend against someone who's fought their whole life.
Street fight.
I'm not talking about a professional fighter.
So again, how do we do that?
25:30
Again, keep it simple.
How we train.
Let's let's, let's make it linear in a sense where if I have this defense, how many attacks can I defend with that defense?
Can we defend 12 different attacks with this particular move?
25:48
Right.
So now we only got a one thing to help us cover a variety of situations rather than learning 7 things against one attack, 7 defenses against one attack.
That becomes confusing.
Should I do this?
Should I do that?
Let's have one defense that'll cover 10 different things, right?
26:06
Maybe a slight difference.
Of course, whatever they're dangerous, address that first.
But everything else, have it be the same.
And, and the one thing that I have learned is, you know, we try to make people, I guess Krav Maga versus of traditional martial art, because the idea is to be learned quick.
26:23
So it attracts the different person.
It's not the person who wants to do the 25 years of Taekwondo to become a master, you know, he wants the the here and now.
So as the coaches like we feel the need to make people black belts in six months again.
26:40
That's where injuries and frustration and things happen.
People just learning how to use their body.
They have no idea what weapons they have available to them.
Their hand, their palm heels, their hammer fist, their fist, their elbows, their knees, their shins, their foreheads, right?
26:57
How do I use them?
And when they don't even have a clue, You know, you were saying people don't know how to throw a punch.
It's a challenging thing to throw a really good punch.
You'd think it'd be easy.
So let's take some time and just let people understand what they have available to them and how to use it first, right?
27:17
Let them be comfortable moving their own body.
So when we do now start going a little bit more pressure, a little bit more stress, a little bit harder with the punches.
It doesn't matter if someone's bigger or smaller.
They have the control.
27:33
Do you see what I'm saying?
They understand what they're trying to do versus just go as hard as you can and, and, and just constantly hurt each other and break each other down, making people feel less confident, feeling like they can't do this.
I mean, you got to build people into fighters who who've never been hit, who's never played a sport before, who's never ran a mile, who's never, you know, you want to keep them engaged.
27:59
You need to keep it interesting for them.
You need it to be fun for them so they can actually get to a point at some stage where they can be good at at 2 hours a week learning everything we need to learn.
28:11
Speaker 2
Oh yeah, and and all were the constraints that it's not a point based system.
So validating if something works or not, it's tougher, right?
Because you mentioned before, you know, you use your elbows, use your forehead, you use your, you know, your obviously your, your, your fists and your, your knees, your feet, whatever it takes to neutralize the threat.
28:33
But that also it it, it also means that you, you know, for the sake of yourself and your your training partners, you can't go all out like, you know, it's just kicking somebody in the groin.
It's like that's fully a valid self-defense thing in Craw, but that's not something you can test in a real life scenario when you're.
28:55
Speaker 1
And we used to.
28:56
Speaker 2
Yeah.
28:57
Speaker 1
You know, and it becomes to a point where, you know, you ask about how we evolve.
You know, for me personally, you know, I've been injured and I hate seeing students get injured.
It defeats the entire purpose.
29:13
You can't train and you can't defend yourself when you're injured.
So the whole thing is and then you can't go to work.
It costs money like it the whole thing.
So eliminating the injuries and trying to get away from those ice.
29:29
I, you know, again, when Krav Maga first came out, no rituals, no belts, all St. you know, no tapping, you know, all of that stuff really bothers me when you hear that stuff from people from I think it's just again, not having an understanding.
29:45
It's not military.
I can't just beat the crap out of you don't care if you get hurt, go to the Infirmary and come back when you're healed and we'll try it again.
You know, it's, it's, it's not about that.
I think the martial arts today, yes, we want to teach people how to defend themselves, but I think it's more of everything you talked about earlier, just making your life more rounded, just being able to deal with adversary, change the way that you think about things, getting your body into shape, and then God forbid, if you needed to defend yourself, you've learned that along the way and you have that tool as a benefit along with everything else that comes along with self-defense training.
30:31
Speaker 2
Yeah.
And how do you, you know, so as you're thinking about, and I hear you guys talk about all the time, you know, in class, things like what we used to do it this way, now we do it this way, right?
30:44
What needs to change in self defense training
When you think about the things that need to change, how do you?
There's so many things you could, you know, especially when you look at all the different martial arts, you look at jujitsu and karate and all the other ones.
30:55
Speaker 1
So we'll take we'll take the bear hug, for example, there was a big one.
So bear hugs.
So I'll bear hugs from behind.
Drop your weight, throw your elbows, turn in.
OK, so again, not really having a full understanding because it is a military, it's not a full grappling system, correct?
31:11
So here we are again, not a you have people that aren't expert in a certain field and they're trying to address an attack to it.
OK, so now as crab magog defense has become more known, right, You see more wrestlers or like Roman Greco or stand up wrestling.
31:30
We'll look at the bear hug from behind and say that isn't going to work.
What do you mean isn't going to work?
Well, let's test it.
And I know my coaches would test it.
Sam goes, he would fight with UFC guys and that's what they do.
And I'm going to bear.
But I don't want you to take me down.
And when you watch wrestling, it's all about hip connection, right?
31:49
So if you're not separating your hips from the person who's behind you, going hip to hip to pick you up and dump you, it's going to be very difficult, almost impossible to make that defense without getting dumped.
You have to address the danger.
What's the principle?
Address the danger.
The danger is what?
32:05
Getting picked up and dumped, right?
Or held so someone else can hit you.
But let's just say getting picked up and dumped.
So how do I address that danger?
I need to separate my hips.
Separate the hips.
Now you start you strikes as simultaneously as you can.
32:22
There might be a brief section there because you can't do both the same time, but you know what I'm saying?
So there would be an element on why something would be changed.
You know, that isn't working.
You know, back in the day we just did trap and roll.
32:39
Someone's in the mount raining punches.
Oh, buck your hips, trap the arm and roll.
Wow, that's awesome.
So easy, right?
Till you get someone who kind of knows how to maintain them out that stand on top and you can't get them off of you.
OK, so now what do we get?
Well, you got to improvise that shrimp.
32:57
You got to do the elbow escape, hip escape from the bottom.
You got to learn how to do that because why?
Because the trap and roll under a violent situations with someone's got a little bit of ground skill, it's going to be very difficult to pull off.
33:12
Speaker 2
Yeah.
33:14
Speaker 1
You know, so little little things, little things like that, how people are handle hiding their weapons, gun threats.
You know, people get a little smarter.
They don't wave the gun in the face and point it at it where it's easier for you to maybe control.
33:30
They might tuck it back a little bit more against the body with their lead hand out.
So now how do I cover that distance to control the gun?
So there's a lot of different elements of why we would change certain techniques.
We went from A1 hand gun defense to two hand now again gun from the front.
33:51
It was redirected, left hand punched to the face with the right addressed the danger attack simultaneously right.
Which was great until you have a smaller person going against a biz person trying to redirect a gun and punch somebody in the face.
34:06
What if my elbow is sore and I can't really grab with the one and every other?
Pretty much every other gun defense had a two hand to it.
Carjacking gun on the ground, gun controlling with the right hand.
34:21
So you need to put the left on it right away.
So why have one defense not have both hands and all the others have both hands.
So keep it.
Let's try to keep it the same.
Let's let's do the let's punch with the gun with two hands rather than punch in the face.
So just things like that that evolve.
34:38
Speaker 2
Yeah.
And, and, and also based on such practical theorems, you know, and in a way, it's like everything that you're saying right now also comes with clauses that you guys are very open about.
You know, you say things like if somebody pulls a gun and says give me your wallet, you comply, give them their wallet, like it's not worth dying over that.
34:57
But if somebody says get in the car, that's when you know, OK, now this is you need to go because the chances of getting found.
So now this is where you do go for that gun in a certain systematized way and or the knife.
And even in that you guys say, OK, listen, you're probably going to get stabbed, but it's better to get stabbed once in a non vital organ than 27 times in the stomach, right?
35:20
Speaker 1
Yeah, and it's not, you know, we would like to think you you can make the defense so you don't get stabbed.
The idea is to have the fighting spirit, right?
You, you have that thing where you could have the, you know, 35 year old fit, strong guy get stabbed or sliced and he he has no will and can die.
35:42
And then you have the 75 year old woman who gets stabbed 58 times and lives, you know, so there's a mentality there.
And I, I get it.
I mean, getting stabbed in the heart and things like that will, But my point is, is that I'm not going to die, you know, and I'm going to fight and I'm going to fight God no matter what.
36:04
So that's, that's really what's important is being able to turn that switch and, and have the fighting mindset, because if you do get caught or something like that, you still want to have that, that fighting spirit.
36:20
Speaker 2
You know, when you're teaching people skills, you don't go from not knowing how to make a fist to knowing how to fully defend yourself within six months.
36:29
How to train for a fight
It takes time.
You've got to practice.
You got to learn how to make the fist.
You got to learn the body mechanics of how to throw a punch, the kick, the knee, the head, all the stuff, right?
And like you said, people are doing it in two hours a week, if you're lucky, maybe 3 hours a week.
How do you make it so that people have to learn the basics?
36:46
So there's an element of simulation because they have to learn how to throw a punch first, But then as you progress, you make this more.
I don't want to say realistic because it's always realistic, but you make it more when you stress this is to the point that you're like, OK, we're going to push you to the point.
Obviously never to a real life scenario, but as close as possible so that mentally and physiologically you're prepared if something like this happens.
37:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, because you're training your nervous system to react.
So a lot of stuff that we try to do is just have you act.
So think about when we go stand for a passive position and when I say don't or turn on the lights really quick or blast the music.
37:25
You guys just got to go all out until we say type, then stop, right?
And then go and then make it have those sort of reactions or our 321 sparring.
37:42
I feel 32 throw 2, I throw one bom, bom, bom, bom, bom, bom, right.
So it's like I'm building your reaction crossover comes to you, what are you doing right away comes back across bom, bom, bom.
So you're just not thinking, you're just trying to build reaction.
37:58
We'll do standing passive and you get slapped in the face and come back with right crosses to the focus Mets stand passive, right get kicked in the stomach, come back with punches right away.
So again, just building those reactions out of people, but it takes time, right.
38:17
So and, and again, I think that's some of the things that I've learned the most to help me evolve is it doesn't happen overnight.
People didn't have the luxury that I had to get to do for a job and train all day and, and go to courses that are 10 hours a day for weeks at a time.
38:33
And, you know, and put myself and immerse it into the way that I did and get to do it for 27 years.
You know, it's a little bit at a time.
So I'm like, if you've ever never played baseball before, I'm not going to put you at shortstop and start ripping line drives at you and having you caught and having you make a double play.
38:55
Like we got to start with what the little short toss, you know, 5 yards apart.
Can you get it in your glove and can you toss it back to me?
And now if I roll it on the ground, can you pick it up with your glove, transfer it to your hand and throw it?
Can you do that?
39:12
There's a long way to go before you're ripping a double play.
39:15
Speaker 2
Oh yeah, and, and to you guys also, the other thing you say is, and what I really love about your studio is how disciplined you guys are not not only in the the training and the techniques, but also how you keep it organized and how you expect people to show up and show up with energy and enthusiast.
39:34
We're not even in just enthusiast, but committed, dressed appropriately.
And, and you know, part of what you say is we push you guys not towards perfection, but we push you to do things right, Because in a real life scenario, you're only going to be as good as like your worst training day or something like that.
39:51
I may have mutilated the same, but it's something along those lines, right?
So you're, you're trying to elevate people in their training, knowing that in a real life scenario, they're going to have maybe 50% of that.
But if you're increasing the capability, then that 50% gets better and better over time.
40:06
Speaker 1
And, and again, I'm talking about evolving and the more you're talking, the more I'm thinking about how much we have evolved because again, no belts, no rituals, no uniforms, you know, so back in the day, I mean, and again, still most crop places that you go to, I would say, but it was there wasn't really, you didn't wear belts, you didn't wear uniforms, OK, You didn't do these little things.
40:30
It's not a traditional martial art.
They really tried to make it.
I'm not, we're not a traditional, we're not a martial art.
We're more martial than art.
You know, they had all these different things that would really separate himself on how hardcore Krav Maga was supposed to be.
And, and then over the time you realize, OK, people are quitting constantly.
40:50
Like how many black belts are being made in Krav Maga?
You know, it takes time for black belts to be anyway, but people just quit.
So it's like, OK, what is it?
Well, there is no discipline.
41:06
There's a bunch of people coming in.
They want to learn something quickly and go home.
Right?
Where's the discipline?
And as adults, where are you getting discipline?
OK, so now it comes to a time we're asking you to have discipline.
Spread all five of your fingers and keep your elbow low when you're doing a redirect of the gun.
41:26
Show up when you don't feel like it today.
Right, So we've never built discipline in you.
And then throughout the course of your training, whether it's showing up on time or doing a more advanced technique, you don't have any discipline.
Well, no crap.
You don't have any discipline.
41:41
We never built discipline in you.
So over the years, yes.
Put a uniform on, tuck your shirt in, tie your belt.
You know, in lieu of bowing to me and calling me grandmaster when I come in.
We don't have to do that to establish discipline.
41:57
We are all adults.
But line up in a certain way, you know, put your pads away neatly at the end of the class.
You know, those things at least starting to build a little bit of discipline and you get your registration sheet in on time when you're going to do your stripe test, you know, make yourself a better person throughout.
42:18
Not just being able to throw punches and kicks.
And I think that was again, a huge part of why I think we have such a great culture at the school too, because now it becomes discipline becomes respect.
Now we start respecting each other.
We don't allow the bigger person to throw full power punches into somebody's chest for two minutes at a time just because they got off on punching hard.
42:43
We'll go hit a heavy bag.
You don't do that to your partner.
They're here to help you.
You're there to help them.
42:49
Speaker 2
You know, with the last few minutes that we have, we talked about kind of where Krav started the evolution of where it is right now.
42:55
Where do you see the martial arts going in 2024?
And, and you're obviously super passionate and you love the sport and you know, you love not the sport, the discipline.
And and so with that, you know, where do you see Krav or the martial arts?
But let's say just Krav from where it's come where it's going.
43:11
Like you, you know, there are elements, obviously, like there have been big almost tectonic plates that happened from my perspective, and I'm not an expert necessarily, but like school shootings, right?
That started, I'm sure it happened before Columbine, but Columbine made it like a thing like now it happens all over the country hundreds of times a years.
43:29
So I'm sure there's elements of like thinking about that or other threats that evolve.
And so as you think about crop and how it's shaped over the years, where do you see it going over the next few years and what direction and how are you positioning your studio and your training style to, to make sure you stay ahead of that?
43:49
Speaker 1
Yeah.
I mean, again, you know, it's always adapted.
You know, we talked about that earlier, right, from the way we do bear hogs because how wrestlers are more prominent and things like that.
And as you mentioned, home invasions and school shootings and not even just schools or just mass shootings in general getting people, I think I'm more aware of self-defense, especially with the unsteady political climate today.
44:16
I think people are more aware and want to learn how to defend themselves a little bit more, especially with their kids.
They want them to be safe growing up.
I think there's always going to be a need for martial arts in the industry.
44:32
I don't, I'm not.
It really depends on how these teachers see it in across the country, how I see it.
I mean, we're already doing it.
I mean, with the boom of the MMA and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Miss Martial Arts and, and, you know, people are just so enthralled with that, that we have to start incorporating those sorts of things in our training.
44:51
As you know, we got a full Brazilian Jiu Jitsu program out of school now we got a whole Jiu jitsu.
Well, a lot of the curriculum, ground curriculum for our Krav Maga program is a lot of Jiu jitsu because we have to be able to start dealing with that new, It's not a threaten, it's the wrong a new, a new way of people fighting.
45:11
Everything is going to go to the ground.
We're going to go to the ground, we're going to go to the ground, we're going to go to the ground.
So so we need to know how to deal with those situations as well.
So I think you're going to see a lot more Krav Maga schools incorporating the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu because in the beginning there was a they were very got their back up about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and well, we just won't go to the ground and we'll just bite you when we get down there.
45:34
And you know, these stupid things, which comes from just not understanding the ground.
You're not biting anybody down there if you don't have position.
So understanding that element more, I think it's going to be the big change, I would say in the weapon defense has set us apart from everything.
45:50
I think we're always going to be the leading front in the self-defense, the weapon defenses, whatever they are.
I mean, we got hand grenade defenses, you know, I mean long gun defenses, baseball bat, axes, hammers.
So we deal with all of that stuff that's always going to set us apart.
I think us catching up with some more of the striking arts just to be a little bit more, you know, even though we're not a sport, just understand the sport more of fighting, the standing sports, the Muay Thais, the boxing and absolutely more of the ground element is important to to keep us relevant with everyone else.
46:24
Speaker 2
I love that.
So just with the final question, I guess if you were talking to a bunch of kids that or, or adults looking to get into Krav Maga or, or mixed martial arts, you know, what advice would you give them?
46:38
Advice for beginners
People that are like listening to this right now being like, oh, this sounds kind of interesting.
46:43
Speaker 1
Humble, just be humble and and humble with everything.
Don't be afraid to not be good at something.
First of all, you know, sometimes that I'm not good at this technique, so you'll avoid it, you know, embrace something that you're not good at.
47:01
You know, don't be an ego.
Don't be that person who just bashes all the martial arts because you're so proud of your own, you know, understand that every single martial art out there is valid.
They, they have their own things that they're really good at.
It really all just depends on the teacher, right?
47:18
They're all awesome in their own way.
It's just a matter of how it's taught and brought to the students.
It's not the art that's bad, you know, So just be willing to learn because there's a lot of experts out there that are going to want to help you.
47:34
I was so lucky to have people that saw my interests or I came from no background and saw that I was hungry.
A lot like you, Nick, it's just fun to to teach people that want the knowledge, right?
So just be that person that wants the knowledge and you will have help from people that you know are worthy of giving it because that's true.
47:55
Martial artists want want to share their knowledge and help.
So just be that person and you will get knowledge and you will get help and you will even grow more as a person.
Just be humble.
That's that's what I say.
48:09
Speaker 2
Dennis, it's been a privilege to interview you, but it's been a privilege to train with you as well.
I've learned tons from you and I'm proud to call you a friend.
So thank you for your time and and I look forward to seeing you again soon.
48:23
Speaker 1
I appreciate it.
Hopefully next week.
Take care, my friend.
