Brand Beats Commodity: Casual Hospitality • bartaco / Anthony Valletta
Winning the Taco Wars
Tacos might be one of the most commoditized products on the planet. You can find them everywhere, at every price point, in nearly every city. So how do you build a truly distinctive brand around something so common?
In this Season 2 premiere of UnNatural Selection, we explore how bartaco has done exactly that. CEO Anthony Valletta shares how the company escaped the commodity trap by focusing on something deeper than the menu: experience, community, and the feeling of belonging.
This conversation dives into why the real competitor in hospitality isn’t another restaurant—it’s isolation, convenience, and digital overload. You’ll hear how bartaco designs environments that encourage connection, why simplicity can be the ultimate form of innovation, and how a brand can scale emotional experiences without losing authenticity.
If you care about differentiation, brand strategy, hospitality, or building meaningful experiences in crowded markets, this episode is a masterclass in turning the ordinary into the unforgettable.
Season 2 starts here.
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Nic (00:05)
Anthony, welcome to our natural selection. It's really great to have you here and especially you're on the topic that I've never met a person that said, I don't like tacos.
Anthony Valletta (00:07)
Thanks. Nice to be here, Nick.
We caught the right trend at the right time, think. That's for sure.
Nic (00:20)
I think so, yeah, you definitely did your market research. ⁓ But before diving into the topic itself, I'd like to start with the same question just to give you a chance to level set and give people context for why you do what you do. So, Anthony, could you please let us know what need or impact drives your work?
Anthony Valletta (00:35)
Yeah, for me, it's about an escape. You think that life is just moving so fast. You look at technology and AI and all these things every day. It's like, my God, I can't keep up. And to me, the need we fulfill is that escape to be able to put down everything and just take a breath and enjoy who sits across from table with you, enjoy some good food and drink, but most of all, just enjoy the environment that you're sitting in. And to me, I think that need is growing more rapidly than it ever has previously. And that started
for me when I was a young kid. Like my grandfather inspired me to get in this industry, not because he was in it, but because that's where those moments of escape from my life and his were had. They shared over a dinner table with the old red and white checkered tablecloths. like, to me, that was my escape that I still remember now 40 years later. ⁓ So I always have that want to recreate that same thing for all the guests that come to my building.
Nic (01:25)
Yeah, and I definitely can identify with that. In society, things seem to happen in these wild ⁓ swings. You go to one extreme, then to the other, then to the other. And I also remember all the social events in a family, most of them happen around a dinner table. That's where you really bond. That's where you get to know people.
And then our technology has really shifted us towards another extreme. I feel like it's only a matter of time before people realize what we miss and we start just gearing back towards that communion and sharing around dinner.
Anthony Valletta (01:57)
I think you're absolutely right. And honestly, you're starting to see it now. I there's been some research that's been done in terms of the younger generation, everybody's talking about that saying, oh, they're too technology forward. They're actually looking to get away from it. They want some of that escape. I think restaurants are becoming that place again, which is why you see some of the QSR has had a really good run for a while last year and Casual Dining starting to make a comeback. And I think that's a sense of place of, don't have to be.
on a POS tablet or I don't have to be on my phone, I can actually engage and get away from that. I think you're right. I think we're just starting to scratch the surface in the coming three to five years as technology continues to rise so fast. I think we're going to see a lot more of, man, I just miss sitting across the table and having a cold beer with Nick and talking for 30 minutes. mean, it's just, it's something that I think will never go away, at least in the future I can see.
Nic (02:41)
Exactly.
⁓ yeah, I've been in technology my entire career, but when I think about the moments that were really, that made an impression on me as a person, the moments that I really reflect back to what built a great friendship or a great relationship, it was never on a text. It was always over a drink, over a meal, really engaging with somebody, having a great conversation. So I definitely think that it's... ⁓
Anthony Valletta (03:09)
Yeah, absolutely.
Nic (03:12)
It's an industry that's suffered because of the technological shift and because of COVID. But I think it's something that's so fundamental to society and hopefully it does swing back in that direction.
Anthony Valletta (03:22)
Yeah, I hope so, for many reasons.
Nic (03:24)
Yeah. And so, you know, the the audience of this show is very diverse. It's professionals from across very diverse fields. And so not all of them know the essence and what goes into restaurant hospitality. So for all the people that really don't know the ins and outs of it, for a lot of people, it's like, oh, you make tacos and you serve them. You know, so it's clearly there's a lot more to running a business and and making it something that's truly unique. So can you give us a sense of how complex
restaurant hospitality is, and particularly in your industry, the modern restaurant industry. So what actually goes into it beyond just serving food?
Anthony Valletta (04:04)
Yeah, it's a great question. It's so funny you mention that because people are like, man, I watched your job. You serve tacos and tequila. It must be so much fun. And it is. That's the essence of what we do. it is so complex. And you have to be the jack of all trades, master of none in this industry because there's so much that goes into it. And I think ⁓ the big component people forget is anybody can make a great taco, right? Take my brand. Anybody can make a great drink. Like, I think we have the best margarita, but so does everybody else in the world. ⁓
While the technical part of creating the right menu and analyzing that month to month, sure, that's table stakes. the real challenge is when you think about, I challenge my team all the time, when a guest walks in the door of any restaurant, they all come from a totally different background. Like what they're walking in there for, what they believe, how their day is, what they're trying to accomplish by being at your restaurant. And the complexity really comes of trying to understand how do you create, let's call it 200 individual experiences during the same hour.
And that's really tough. And you're doing that with, you know, some college kids, high school kids, younger that that's not their priority. They're going in to take care of somebody, give them some good food and service, make a tip and go home. So the complexity really comes of building this environment and being able to analyze and use the backend of technology to be able to push that information out to your staff, even to your guests in terms of marketing, to be able to make sure it feels like there's a personalization there that it feels that I understand that you've walked in here.
to have a business meeting while the table next to you is an anniversary and the table next to you is two high school friends. And they're all looking for something different. And I always tell my team that each guest walks into a restaurant with a number above their head. It's a score of their day. Some people have a crappy day, some have a great day. And our job is to improve that score. We don't know what the score is. They don't tell us when they walk in and they don't tell us when they walk out. They might in a review. But to do that is not as simple as just give them a good taco and a good margarita.
Nic (05:45)
you
Anthony Valletta (06:00)
It's what level of engagement do you want? How does the music sound? How is the environment? Like to us, it's more about the vibe. Like our brand was actually not initially intended to be a restaurant. When it was founded, we talked more about what we wanted a space to feel like. We had an interesting piece of real estate. We kind of were looking at what can we do with this in the original founder that was the creative, just like, you know, I want this feeling of like the coastal relaxation and Uruguay and Southern California and
it's seasonally, it's some surf cultures. Maybe we sell some surf ideas and then, but I want a bar. And all of a sudden it kind of came through. Well, it's just a restaurant, but we spend more time on the technical side of talking about how the restaurant feels than we even talk about necessarily the menu or the drink. ⁓ We, we listened to hundreds of songs a week to not even feed an algorithm to manually go through and actually curate playlists based off the location. We spend time on,
Nic (06:37)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anthony Valletta (06:57)
all of the environment in terms of plants or even tchotchkes that are on the shelves. You don't realize it, but the psychology of sitting down and the things you see, but don't see, right? If I asked you what was on the shelf, like, I actually don't know. I didn't really pay attention, but you did. And it creates the sense of place that you're in. And I think now when you look at at least my industry specifically, it's becoming more and more about experience and not experience like, you know, a top golfer.
or something like an experience in terms of like what the entire environment provides and what that value is. And that's becoming oddly enough, less and less about food and drink. ⁓ Cause everybody's a chef now with their iPhones. Like I can go on to an AI and you can get the recipe for anything. You can sound like an expert in 20 seconds. And that part isn't as challenging as it used to be even a decade ago. So you have to be able to find ways to really curate these custom experiences.
Nic (07:34)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Anthony Valletta (07:53)
make the environment feel really differentiated and do all that while making money in one of the most challenging industries out there. Like the interesting thing I spoke not too long ago in Denver to a large group of business leaders, all different sectors. And I said, imagine waking up every day and not knowing that you had any guaranteed sales, like no contract signed, no clients every day. You wake up with zero coming into your bank account and you take a perishable product and you prepare it and you schedule people.
Nic (08:00)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Anthony Valletta (08:23)
hoping someone walks in the door and you make all these plans and you don't know what's gonna happen. And then when people do come in, you learn each day and you adapt. So the margins on the business are so tight. So you're trying to create all these amazing things just to put food in front of a guest with one of the tightest margin businesses that are out there. And the guests, to your point and your question, don't ever see that. They just see, what's so hard about this? You threw some fish.
Nic (08:33)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Anthony Valletta (08:49)
and fryer and threw in a taco and gave me a margarita with tequila. I do that at home. Like, why is that so hard? This is what I paid you for. And it's not hard, but it is. And that's the challenging part. I always say like, we're just tacos and tequila. We're not curing cancer. But it's really hard behind the scenes when you see so much that goes into the business. to me, that's the fun of it. That's no two days ever become the same because of how dynamic it is.
Nic (08:57)
yeah.
absolutely. As you were saying all this, mean, a couple things came to mind. First of all, it's the amount of engineering that goes into curating, creating this experience, right? It's like, I think of it in terms of, I've been in technology most of my life and most people have heard this by now that an app or a system that feels simple, intuitive is really, really hard to make.
Right. It's just it's a lot easier throwing a bunch of slop and features and stuff like that into something that feels complex, something that actually feels intuitive is actually like that's the hard part. And that sounds like what you're doing. You're curating every single detail, ⁓ applying all kinds of psychology into it. I don't know if you incorporate like feng shui and principles about that. You know, so obviously like coloring and positioning and all that. When you think about that entire experience and what you want a person to feel.
not only as a brand for when you walk into that restaurant, but also even uniquely to every single person that's there. So they have their own unique experience. I can imagine. And then doing that on top with very small margins, right? Because innovation in this space, from what I understand, you don't have endless amounts of funds to dedicate to R &D. So you've got to be super clever in how you differentiate. So with that perspective, what does innovation mean to you?
when you think about the constraints that are inherent in what you do, and yet you create a very unique experience.
Anthony Valletta (10:36)
Yeah, it's a great question. You know, to me, it's interesting that term innovation can get very confused, especially in my industry. You see a lot of these companies or CEOs, know, we're innovating on this and we're innovating on that. And in the reality, I think, at least from my perspective, is that innovation for me now is actually simplicity. And that sounds counterintuitive, but it's very challenging. Like simplicity is very hard because there's so many things that people are looking for.
And to me, the innovative front, I look at this kind of in two parallel tracks. There's the behind the scenes that no one sees and no one touches and the guest never is exposed to, but is indirectly exposed to. And that's a lot of ways when we innovate is in terms of how can we use technology and data that we have in our guests to be able to curate better experiences without them knowing. There's the easy ways you see a Starbucks app or things of nature and you pop up and it has your profile and your preferences. And that's great. Those serve a phenomenal purpose.
In full service dining, I don't think people are looking to have interactions with technology as much as they are in a coffee shop. So how are you using the backend to analyze historical traits, how the menu is going, what happens seasonally? know, when Nick comes in on a Friday night with his family, he chooses to eat and drink this way, but during the week at a business dinner, he goes this way. Great. How do we be able to curate, understand that? the innovation is actually simplifying it down of knowing
I just know Nick has two types of dining experiences and I'm going to simplify that for him versus all of these complex things. think far too often, especially with us, we have so much data now and the restaurant industry hasn't been great at collecting data for many years. We've been behind technology for decades and we have so much data and it becomes analysis paralysis. And we think that all of a sudden, my goodness, and we try to connect a hundred dots at once to end up back in the first two dots you connected.
Nic (12:02)
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Anthony Valletta (12:25)
So for me, the innovation that we're looking at is more about simplicity and saying, that's everything from design to experience. Like we built the restaurant in Charleston on King Street, ⁓ Storick's part of the city. And we wanted to do something that the design was very different. We wanted to really pay homage to the city. So we got all reclaimed iron from all along the city and we built all of the rails, the stair rails underneath the bar with all of that. We had the walls, it was actually used to be an alleyway.
Nic (12:50)
Yeah, that's cool.
Anthony Valletta (12:55)
were original from 1896, the Rafters were original from 1906. We wanted to just leave it. And we weren't calling anything to it. We weren't, you know, making a big facade of like, please look here. It just was the simplicity of those little things. And then when people look like, that's really interesting. What is that? Let me tell you a story. And yeah, it's phenomenal. And I think oftentimes, at least in our industry, it gets confused because innovation, you know, in even the health space, right?
Nic (13:00)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, those are the best.
Anthony Valletta (13:24)
It's new medicines, technology, new ways. Like there's so many things that truly innovate new ways to do things. There's only so many ways you can put a taco on a plate. I can get any piece of equipment and things of that nature. Fine. But the ultimate piece of ours, like there's some timelessness to what we do that it's about connection and good quality food and drink. So we look at it as really trying to make sure that the fundamental part of what we're serving to a guest, what they're really paying for. ⁓
is as simple to understand as possible. I think that's the big thing. I listened to an article ⁓ about Chili's. Chili's industry is like booming. These guys have just defied trends for three years. And the big thing is like, we figured out the one thing that people loved about coming to our restaurant. And we just did it really well and we talked about it. And they have been like this industry leader for us up 30%. And we're like, I can't figure out how they do it. Like, it wasn't complicated.
Nic (14:19)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Valletta (14:20)
We
innovated on what we knew was really good. And I think while it sounds counterintuitive, at least in our industry, it's not. And I think that's where people are getting confused of, I have to create a new way to do it. No, pizza has been pizza for a long time. ⁓ No one's changed the way pizza is really served overall, but it's about how it's delivered and how that connection to the brand comes afterwards.
Nic (14:34)
Mm-hmm.
absolutely. it's innovation is one of those like words that means something different to different people. And some people think it automatically means investing tons of money into technology. And it's like, no, actually, it's how you differentiate. It's how you compete. It's how you create anything from new technology, new drugs, new experiences. ⁓ You know, I've interviewed people across the board. And it's funny because you sometimes I've talked to people in elite MMA.
fighters or somebody in opera. And you ask them, how do you innovate? And they're like, well, we don't really innovate in this field. It's not that's not something we do. And then you start probing and asking questions, not using the innovation word, but asking how you compete, how you differentiate, you know, what does it mean to you to take the field and evolve it over time so you can become better at it? And then they start chiming up and they start lighting up about all the different things. And it's like you do innovate. Like that is innovation. It doesn't have to be technology. It's just how you do what you do better.
And so much goes into it. Like you said, it doesn't have to be a thousand data points. It could literally be, okay, when Nick comes in every single Thursday, he tries different tacos, but he always orders the coconut margarita. And it's like, let's just make sure we flag that.
Anthony Valletta (15:56)
That simple.
Yeah. I like the innovation is how you compete and then get your a hundred percent. Right. It's, it's not, I think too often, especially with how booming every conversation is with tech and AI, people think it has to be centered around that for some reason. There's no correlation necessarily, especially in places like this or MMA or, singing. It's, it's incredible.
Nic (16:09)
Yeah.
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, the way that some of the premise behind this show is that innovation is essentially the same as mutations in biology. It's how it's not how we evolve biology, but it's how we evolve society. And so when you think of from that perspective, innovation can mean anything as long as you're advancing your industry and society as a whole. And that's why it's so interesting talking to people here, because I'm talking to you, the CEO of Bar Taco.
I've talked to people from the former CEO of Blockbuster, people from Opera, people from Tennis, people from MMA, people from NASA, and everybody views it differently in different timescales, different horizons, or different approaches. ⁓ Altogether, just really kind of maps kind of the human psyche of how we evolve society, which makes it really interesting. in this case, like you said, right, there's only so much you can do to the food.
So what you guys are doing is creating an experience, which really dives into the big question that I had for me. mean, there are a bunch of questions that I'm fascinated by what you're doing, but the big one to me is like, how do you differentiate, how do you create a new experience in a field where tacos are everywhere? I I could walk down the street, I could buy them in the grocery store, right? I can order them. They are so ubiquitous. And yet you guys have managed to create ⁓ a flourishing
brand and unique experience in a field that's saturated with different people's perspective with something that is fairly well defined too. It's not like you're going to convert a taco into a pizza or something different. It still has to be a taco. And yet it's awesome going into a bar taco. I've been to it plenty of times and it's always ⁓ in an environment where it's like friends. Like, hey, we haven't seen each other in six months. Let's go get a drink. Let's go to bar taco. It's like that kind of an experience.
Anthony Valletta (18:09)
I mean, thank you for the kind words, first of all. ⁓ But I think there's two components. think the one which is a little bit more technical but is important is when you look at the taco landscape, which 15 years ago when we started, it wasn't a thing. I mean, it was Taco Bell and it was Chili's doing fajitas. mean, what these street style small tacos in full service didn't really exist and it's grown a lot, which is fantastic. ⁓ But I think the key of us is when we initially started, ⁓
The menu was gluten-free, minus desserts 15 years ago. That maintains today. 15 years ago didn't matter. It wasn't a big deal, but now it is, right? These dietary components are massive. think when you look at the landscape, how much it's grown, it's grown a little bit more traditional, like Mexican-American, where you've got two to three tacos, rice and beans, or like big burritos. And they're really not the way that people are eating authentically when you go down to Mexico. We do trips every year ⁓ all across Mexico to really get inspired.
And for us, these small bite-sized street-style food is interesting. And the other thing for us is that we get international flavors around the world. We've got Asian flavors, Mediterranean flavors, we've got South American, and we use those ⁓ really to make it a little bit more interesting and not just your standard carne asada, carnita. It's all the basic stuff. And I think we've put a little bit of a twist. And interestingly enough, no one on a mass scale has done the street-style component to tacos that we've done.
Our tacos are smaller, the two or three bites, everybody else's tend to be a bit larger. And we like that. So that gives us a little bit of an edge. The big edge, I think that we have that for some reason, no one's jumped on is we fresh squeeze every drink, every juice in our restaurant to order. And at a casual dining level, I don't know any brand that does that. They might get a fresh quote unquote, squeezed juice that comes in a container from their produce company. But anybody doing fresh squeeze is usually high-end dining, fine dining or craft cocktails. So to us,
That's an edge that I believe that we have everybody else. I think you heard me mention about the space in Charleston and we do this in other restaurants. We put a lot more time into our space than I think most people do. Some people figure out the design, they put them up and they put their booths when they need to put them and they move from there. We're really meticulous in terms of the art itself that goes up. I've literally spent, I think I'm on my fifth round of the past three weeks picking art with my design team for restaurant we're constructing right now.
Nic (20:30)
You
Anthony Valletta (20:34)
because we want to make sure that each piece isn't just a, yeah, I see that in every bar of taco. It's like, oh, that's interesting. That's there. It's there for a reason. So I think, and maybe this is a little too confident to say, but I think we are much more intentional about the things that we do than other people in this space because they saw this, everybody loves tacos to your point. Great. I can do a taco place and you can, and there's some great ones out there. I think that's one piece. I think the second one that I believe that is a real competitive edge for us is that
That vibe, we use that term with our team a lot. We talk about vibe every day in our restaurants. And that could mean music. We do fresh planted plants everywhere from outside to inside. That's part of the vibe. ⁓ Like it's the way the air is, the way the windows are up, the way the fact that we bring the outside in, the way that the bar and the fresh squeezing the juices and the shaking of the tins you can hear when you walk in. The fact that our bars are connected to our kitchen, that you pull that energy.
Nic (21:31)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Valletta (21:31)
All those
things are very intentional. But I think that experience and that vibe when you walk in one of our restaurants on a Friday night, I don't think anybody's been able to recreate as well as we have. And that's something that we spend probably more time than we should, but by design on. So in a crowded field, I think we know our lane is that we create the best vibe and we're coupled with amazing food and drink. That's also differentiated, but you know, a Baja fish taco is a Baja fish taco.
it's relatively the same. So that has to take the edge. So for us, we spend time, money, research to your term innovation, really on that vibe component and what's to come in terms of what our guests are looking for. And we adapt pretty quickly in those things.
Nic (22:17)
Yeah. And as you're putting all these things together, thing that comes to mind as well as ⁓ back to the original conversation we were having around that communal sense of dinner, part of that is also the familiarity, ⁓ the reliability of having that common environment all the time. And we talked about everything that goes into the environment that you build and then how you're thinking about new ingredients and new experiences and so on. So how do you balance
that need from the guests, which is it's complicated, right? Because like everybody's got a different thing that they're looking for. But on the one hand, if you're thinking I'm going to go have tacos, there is that reliable favorite kind of food, which is like, I'm to go have tacos. But then if they go to bar taco, it's going to be a different experience. There's going to be a novelty. And so you've got to balance that, like keeping the keeping the the comfort of a taco meal, but also adding that novelty that makes you unique.
⁓ How do you think about it from that perspective so that you don't innovate beyond the core of what makes you unique?
Anthony Valletta (23:23)
Yeah, I mean, what's really interesting is that over the course of 15 years, and we just went through this because we hit our 15th anniversary this year, there's a handful of items. Thank you. There's a handful of items that have not changed since day one. They've just been that steady component. And I think it's really challenging to be everything to everybody, especially in the restaurant space. If we listen to every guest and what they asked for and what they were looking for, our head would spin. And our brand
Nic (23:30)
Congratulations.
Anthony Valletta (23:53)
never has been someone that chases the trends. It's never been someone that says, ⁓ a perfect example, I was just talking to our equity firm about this. ⁓ Right now, everybody's talking about high protein. see on Chipotle's menu and you see these GLP-1 sections of menus and you see that the next up is fiber and all these people are chasing like, this is a new thing. And they spend all this time and money and resource and marketing dollars.
to try to chase something that in six months goes away versus focusing on the core of saying, sure, those things are great and maybe you're buying some guests and maybe they jumped there for once, but it's probably not the thing. What do you do to them every day? Like, what is the thing they always know that you are reliable for? And I think for us, that's always been our mantra is like, we are the steady, reliable place that you always know you're gonna get some of your core favorites.
You're going to get things that are a little bit timeless. Our food intentionally is simplistic. All of our tacos, you only have like up to three ingredients or components on it. All done from scratch, all high end, but there's something a little bit different about it. And that's because we don't want to overcomplicate it. You see some of these things where it's like, my goodness, like I read menus and there's 92 ingredients. Like, can I just have it without these 10? And then you start customizing menus and it changes the experience. So for us, it's really about making sure that our core tenants are
executed phenomenally and they consistently deliver the way the guests want to and we've been fortunate those have worked for many, many years. And then there's that little bit of piece where, you know, we update some things, but anything we put on the menu, it's not a, because it's hot right now, it's a new trend. It's something that we believe could be a staple for us for a long period of time. And then we sprinkle things in just to keep, to your point, some of the excitement. We have what's called a secret taco. So if you know, you know, type thing.
Nic (25:46)
Hmm.
Anthony Valletta (25:46)
that
you walk in and you ask, what's secret taco? And we always have one rotating kind of behind the scenes quiet thing that if you're in the club, if you will, you know about it. So that's where we can have a little bit of fun and do some, you know, some more exciting components. But again, I guess it goes back to that theme, like simplicity is hard, but it works really well if you're good at it.
Nic (26:06)
yeah. And also knowing at the core what your business is about, right? And a lot of companies, most companies have a mission statement. They have objectives of what defines them and who they are. And so that really helps in aligning incentives, but also helps understanding what belongs and doesn't belong in your culture and your environment and your menu and your experience. And those things often come very handy when times are
difficult because it kind of it's your North Star that says this is what we fundamentally are. You were mentioning before Chili's right Chili's been around forever. I didn't know they were doing so well and it's like you said it's like well we make certain things really well. Let's just go back to that and talk a lot about that. They're like OK this is our mission this is what we do and that often helps you ⁓ get clarity around what is fundamental to your business versus what is noise.
Anthony Valletta (27:03)
It's funny you bring up like the mission statement, we don't have a mission statement. It's just not our thing. I've seen far too many times in my career, even companies I've worked for, that you have this mission statement and these core values and you post them on a beautiful thing in the back and everybody talks, yeah, that's our mission. And then you make a decision and no one ever talks about it in a meeting. They never bring up the core values in a meeting and say, well, hold on, wait, is that our core tenets? And they just start doing things and that mission or core values, in my opinion, it's your filtration process.
It should be something that should go through and say, does this line up with your brand? That's the easy question. So for us, our brand, always say we constantly think guests first. So anything that we do, first question we ask people, is it better for the guests? I'm not sure. Then we're not going to do it. There's things operationally that you do behind the scenes, but like that filtration piece is really everything. And I've always found mission savings to be so amusing. Cause it's like, if I could go into a company and ask their ground level employee,
you someone driving a forklift or stocking a shelf or clearing a table, what's your mission statement? And they can tell you and they actually know what it means, right? Then you've done something incredible. Like it's, it's the old JFK story, the NASA story by the janitor. I'm sure you've this before. It's like, he goes into, you know, what are you doing? I'm helping put a man in the mood as he's sweeping the floors. To me, like there, there's a mission that he understands. But very few and far between do you find companies that do that? And I think you're right. It becomes.
you know, they try to veer off because it's the new recent trend or the shiny ball down the hallway versus just saying like, just be true to who you are. That's what got you to where you are today.
Nic (28:44)
Yeah, totally. You talked about incorporating technology before. Do you have examples of how that ⁓ using the behind the scenes technology led to a different experience or an insight that you didn't know before? Like how are you using technology in that perspective?
Anthony Valletta (29:02)
Yeah, so for a lot of us, it's interesting. We have about just over five million individual records on our consumers. We were doing post-COVID, the digital dining, as everybody knew, know, scan the QR code. We were doing that for an extended period of time where guests can, and they still can today if they wanted to, you can order digitally on your phone. It goes right to the kitchen. It's kind of like your own, your curative experience. And it's about a third of our guests choose to order that way. But because of that, we get a lot of really unique.
information about both of our guests and just kind of some habits across the board. ⁓ And ultimately, what became more fascinating to us was looking at the differentiation by day part, ⁓ as well as by like group size and saying, okay, how does the consumer truly act differently at lunch? Like, sure, theoretically, it's easy. They might eat less, they're not going to drink as much, but all these things. And that wasn't necessarily the case for our brand.
Being able to take all of that data we had and cross-reference that with general data, household income, psychographic, archetypes, things of that nature, and being able to actually subset our restaurants into mini cohort groups. We have three mini cohort groups within the company. And based on those cohort groups, one in downtown Boston and Seaport acts very differently than one in ⁓ suburban Raleigh, North Carolina.
I think a lot of brands, especially when brands get larger and grow, they tend to treat everything somewhat the same. And they think that, it works here, it doesn't work there, but it's fine because it's good for the brand versus really delineating not just your marketing, not just a menu, but we actually take it down to how are we hiring the talent at that location? Because a general manager at a location in suburban America versus urban America needs to look very different.
Nic (30:33)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Valletta (30:54)
But at the core, have to still be somebody that's good for our brand. We've taken a lot of like really, really methodical data, turned into qualitative ways of being able to put the right people in front of the right guests. And what's been amazing is I started five years ago, our guest sentiments, we measure them one to five, was a 3.8, I 3.86 or seven, five years ago. We're running a 4.74 this year.
Nic (31:06)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Valletta (31:22)
from just these little tweaks. And it's not like our service hasn't fundamentally changed, our food hasn't fundamentally changed, the environment's still the same philosophy. But what we really did was make sure that we're curating who we're bringing into the restaurant based off all this data and saying, Nick is the primary consumer coming into this location. What is the person that's going to connect with what Nick is using our restaurant for? And all those individual records behind the scenes with a lot of analytics and a lot of AI and.
I'm simplifying how much work this really was, but taking all that and now being able to be on the five yard line and say, now we can really make qualitative decisions, people decisions, environment decisions based off years of data research, I think to me is really fascinating. ⁓ Cause now we're starting to get in the psychology of it. And it's just that that world opens up so much more. ⁓ But it's, been a really, really fun project and journey to get us where we are.
Nic (31:53)
⁓
Yeah. yeah, for sure.
yeah, I mean you were talking before about how you design your restaurants in different places depending on the history or the materials that are there. yeah, I think that's it's such a cool experience to go somewhere where you know that the experience will be somewhat consistent because it's bar taco and then there are core elements about it that are like, okay, when I go to a bar taco, I expect these things. But then there's that
novelty and that surprise of like if I'm traveling and I'm in Nashville or if I'm in LA and I walk into a bar taco, it's going to be, there's going to be a novelty to it that kind of embellishes and decorates the core that I'm used to.
Anthony Valletta (33:01)
Yeah, absolutely. mean, it always drives me nuts when you go to some restaurants. Like you already know where the bathroom is, even though you haven't been to that location. Because it's the same spot in every single restaurant across the country. It's just you carve and cut it. I think you become a little bit of the brand, but it's not as exciting to see a new space. Whereas for us, I love people going like, oh my God, I went to your one in Coconut Grove. It's beautiful. It looks like a Grecian village. I was like, yeah. And there's some that look somewhat similar. And that's just by nature. I don't want to get too far away.
Nic (33:07)
Yeah, that's right.
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Valletta (33:29)
When you find those core things that you never go away from, but you really pull in some of those fun elements, we want something exciting. And that's the little minor tweaks to the menu. Like we offer certain things in certain regions. It's nothing crazy. It's one or two things. It's like, oh, that's interesting. I went to Colorado and you have lamb on the menu. Yeah. It works great in Colorado. People love it. What'd you think? Oh, it was incredible. I'd love to have it back in, you know, wherever, Georgia. So those kinds of stories, I think are really fun. They're exciting.
Nic (33:52)
Ha
That's actually super cool. Cause yeah, I was thinking about that as, you guys are growing, you're successful, you're growing. There's the risk of becoming just another chain, but you guys do so much to make each location unique. And I didn't know that you were doing that. That's actually super cool where it's like, what is the local cuisine or the local type of food? If you're coastal, maybe it's much more seafood. If you're in Colorado, maybe you have lamb and you incorporate those ingredients into your menu.
It doesn't define the entire menu. There are probably some consistent things across all of them. But it's like, well, if I'm in Colorado, I might as well try. I remember one time I was traveling in Estonia and I found myself eating in a square and a restaurant had ⁓ like black bear on the menu. And I was just like, I don't know if I really, but you know, I had to try it. It's just one of these things of like, I'm in Estonia, I've got to try it. And ⁓ it kind of gives you a little bit of like, especially if you're traveling, some local...
Anthony Valletta (34:46)
Of course, All right.
Nic (34:54)
experience that you wouldn't have had otherwise. And if you are local, then it just gives you a little bit more feeling of home.
Anthony Valletta (34:57)
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's the key. We just opened up in Bethesda, Maryland, and we did a crab taco because in Maryland, crab doesn't make sense. And it does really well. Like, my God, that's really cool. And you douse it in Old Bay, because that's what they do in Maryland. And in those little things, kind of my earlier points, like the little subtle things that they don't necessarily realize, but they realize is huge. And I think the best compliment that I receive ⁓ being here in Connecticut where we started, people are like, you're the CEO of our taco. It's cool. You guys have what, three locations?
Nic (35:06)
yeah.
Anthony Valletta (35:31)
33, like what do you mean? Like in these markets, interesting, like we have these little clusters like in Georgia, Virginia, and most markets don't realize that we're this bigger brand. Like we're not huge, we're 33, but think we out kick our coverage. But that to me is the best compliment that people are like, this, I thought this was just a Connecticut thing, or this is just a Georgia thing, or it's a Virginia thing. And we really push our general managers to be part of the community. we...
We have a director of local store marketing. That's all they focus on is to make these brands feel like they're part of the community and not just another quote unquote corporate restaurant coming in and just trying to make their claim. We really want to be part of the environment. And that's not just, you the design is one component. That's kind of step one. But step two is it's like you're sponsoring a baseball team. You're going to local Pilates studio and doing their happy hour and you're hosting mom groups. And that's what we think is success.
Right? There's revenue can define many things, but sometimes revenue can be bad. It can just be, it can be fake for us. It's what is it? What is the breakdown of revenue? If you're getting those social groups and those fitness groups and those local communities and you know, the teams are celebrating after a high school varsity team wins a game with you, you're part of the community. And those are the restaurants I think that that win. And to your point, it's really hard to grow and still keep that kind of local aspect.
Nic (36:31)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Valletta (36:56)
front of mind. And that's probably one of biggest challenges that we fight every day and we're going to fight as long as we can.
Nic (37:02)
Yeah, mean, to me, revenue is really it's a reflection of value creation. And so if you start analyzing from that perspective, you can really look at it as like, is this a one time pop because it's Cinco de Mayo, for example, or is it something that's persistent because people are finding a value that either you consciously created and it's like, OK, they're responding to that. Or maybe there are, you know, there's a value that you.
inadvertently created that people are finding. if you identify that trend, it's like, well, is it worth leaning into that or is this something that's more of a distraction? But the data really trickles that out so that you can now be very intentional about what value you drive, right?
Anthony Valletta (37:40)
And funny bring up value because it's been such a big topic for me, like publicly and with our companies. It's such a big term in the restaurant space right now is I'm going for value and going for value. And people often confuse value with price. And it drives me nuts when people do that, because a three Michelin star dinner can have great value because you're getting more than you're than you're paying for if it's done right. ⁓
And we work on that equation. look at the value equation of what you give over what you get. So a guest is giving up choices in time and money and all of these things. We have to deliver more than what they gave up. And I think that's where a lot of people get confused in terms of what they're trying to provide. We see restaurants discounting and value menus and all these things. it's, it's a ploy, your point of is the revenue real? Is it something tangible or are you just buying guests in?
I think the industry for quite some time now has been buying guests and like we don't discount anything. I give away plenty of tacos, but we don't ever discount. Cause to me, if you can discount your food once, then you shouldn't have charged them the inflated price the first time, right? Give the guests what they deserve.
Nic (38:50)
I think about that too.
Yeah, when I see, you know, it's funny, my wife will come to me and say like, or I hear other women talking about how, you know, I have to buy these jeans because, you know, they're only $150 right now, where usually they cost $575. And I'm like, jeans shouldn't cost $575. And if they're discounting it, they're still making a profit, right? So you got to think about.
Anthony Valletta (39:10)
Right, yeah.
Yeah, it's wild, right? in things have been really challenging for the restaurant space for a number of years. So people were get a little bit more desperate, but it becomes a game. So I discount something this year. But then next year, when I have to roll over that number, what do I do? Do I discount more? Do I raise my price and discount the same dollar amount, but ultimately actually making more money, which is it's this like nonstop merry-go-round that people get on.
Nic (39:32)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Valletta (39:43)
And for us, like, charge them the right price, give them an amazing experience, and value creation goes through the roof. I think it's one thing that we've been successful with is we sit in between this, you know, fast, casual, casual dining sector, but our value, we're cheaper than going to Cava, than going to Chipotle. ⁓ I had a call from yesterday, they go, my wife and kids went to your restaurant and walked out for 38 bucks. Like, how is that possible? because it's good value.
It's not about the dollar amount. It could have been $380 if you were to find a restaurant, but what he was telling me was the value was insane. I went in had this great experience for $38 and that just doesn't seem like they can't register that. And to me, that's what we try to look at is how do you have that conversation up with every guest? I can't believe that's all it was. And again, it's not the price. It's the value that they received during that. And that's where experience and environment and vibe make a difference. Cause it makes a
$4 tacos seem like it's worth eight.
Nic (40:42)
Well, I think also the other inherent part of that is trust. Because ⁓ if I'm going to a restaurant and I'm seeing them give me these radical discounts, it draws to my mind at least, well, then why were you charging again back to the Blue Gene example? Why were you charging me that before? Then why are you going back up to that if you can obviously do run a business on a certain amount? And if you're giving me such a big discount,
on the tuna on a Tuesday, is it because you're trying to get rid of it and it's like a week old? You know, so it brings all these questions that I don't want to be asking when I go to eat at a restaurant. Like I want to go to a restaurant, I already committed to eating there. And so it's like change the experience in different ways and add value in different ways. Don't show me how the sausage is made in a way because I don't want to get to that level because it's just going to linger in my mind next time I'm there.
Anthony Valletta (41:28)
Yeah, I totally agree. think you're absolutely right at the nail on the head with the trust component. That's our, if we have trust from our guests, then whatever it is that we do, they're going to believe us, right? Meaning they put a new item on, you tell us that we're going to bring in new chairs, new unit, whatever it is. If they have that trust, they're never going to feel like you're taking advantage of them. And that's something I never want to do. I we haven't taken price in almost two years. The industry's taken, I think they've
Nic (41:39)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Valletta (41:58)
outpriced the consumer heavily. In 2025, people took a lot of advantage of the consumer because inflation was high and you tariffs and had labor implications. said, ⁓ we'll just pass along. I think consumers are pushing back. And when you see how much they're struggling, a lot of bankruptcy is going on in our industry, I think more is because they took advantage of the guests. They defied their trust to your point. And those people that didn't that said, hey, we recognize you're choosing to spend your money with me and I'm going to make it worth it for you.
Those are the ones that you're seeing succeed and prevail and have great success. And I think the guess is getting a lot smarter than certain brands give them credit for. That's great.
Nic (42:38)
When I was growing up, I used to work a lot in restaurants. And one thing that I can't help but think about is the importance of your frontline staff. And so everything you're saying from like the design and the culture and the food and everything, the philosophy of how you operate is all great. But then ultimately it has to then make it into the minds of every person that interacts with your client, your customers, your guests.
And I remember when I was in a restaurant, ⁓ for me it was a job, right? And for a lot of people it's a job, but the way that you deliver that job can vary significantly whether you identify with the brand and the mission or the philosophy, all the way through how you treat your employees, right? Because I remember if I walked in and my manager was stressed out and yelled at me, I wasn't gonna be that friendly towards my guests because I was already in a bad mood, right?
But if I was feeling great, then I would make my guests feel great. And so, so much of it is like everything that we're talking about, like how you build the core, how you create the brand, but then that has to radiate through your staff so that eventually it gets to the client because they're ultimately the first line in front of the client. How do you make sure that everything we're talking about here really permeates all the way to the client? It doesn't stop at your front line.
Anthony Valletta (43:58)
man, if I had the perfect answer for that, I'd probably be worth a lot of money. But I think the real key that we do is we hire in our industry, it's a people business. We hire a person because of who they are, not because of what we want them to execute. All right. So a lot of restaurants now are saying, oh, the new workforce doesn't want to work. They don't want to do what we asked them to do. I don't know that I agree with that. What I think is that they just want to have some
Nic (44:01)
Hahaha
Anthony Valletta (44:28)
autonomy. They want to be able to be themselves and not feel like they have to be the bar taco version of themselves. And we're trying to create environments that one, they understand what the goal is. And the goal we tell our teams, your goal is a cell phone. It's not tacos, not tequilas. You sell fun. Every day, that's the job. And we lead with that. So your frontline workers, whether you're busing, washing dishes behind the bar, your job is a cell phone.
and create that experience. if that's their filter, if you will, then we've done a good job. And at that point, we say, here's some guidelines and how you're going to do that. Right? When a guest comes to the table, you got to make sure you mention how they're going to experience this. So here's, here's a few points you have to tell them, but tell them in your own way. Whereas a lot of restaurants you walk into, it's the same spiel as they call it. Everybody says the same thing, different voice, but you're like, yep, I can repeat this back to you. Like I used to work for a brand. won't say they were, but
The spiel was the same for every person. And the guests used to come in regularly and like, I could spiel you. Can you not do this, please? It's like, where's the authenticity, right? Where's that real connection? So for us, we want people just to be themselves and come in and say, hey, go have a good time. Just go have fun. Like, if you miss filling up a water, but the guest is having a blast, they're not going to be upset. If you think about it, when you think about the technical things you've missed in a dining experience, whether like your water wasn't full, the table wasn't clean,
Nic (45:30)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Anthony Valletta (45:53)
It's usually because the server wasn't, you weren't having a good time because you had time to focus and look like I haven't had water forever. Like, Hey, can somebody pay attention over here? I've had plenty of times where service technically hasn't been great, but I've had such an amazing time. didn't care. And that's like, there's the infamous quote that service is a technical delivery of what you do in hospitality is how it makes you feel. You focus on the latter component versus the primary. And I think that's how you get these frontline people understand of
Nic (45:55)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Valletta (46:22)
I'm not going to get upset if you forget to tell them the secret taco if they asked. We'll coach you on it, but that's fine. But if they left and said, man, I had such a good time with Nick, like I literally was rolling the floor laughing, everything else can go away. I don't care. Because that's what they remember. They don't remember the spiel. You sometimes forget the food. Not because it wasn't good. It's just like, my god, I completely forgot what I even had for dinner because I was laughing so hard. I had such a good time. So I think for us, it's more
Nic (46:35)
Thanks
yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Valletta (46:51)
If we get that message down to our team, that's the way the front line people can do it. Whereas it's not, know, do this and do this and do this and do this and then we win. It's just go out and be yourself and have fun. And that's hard because we get 1,500 employees and hiring 2,500 personalities is never going to happen. But if the leaders of restaurants push that down, at least we've got a good captain leading the ship.
Nic (47:04)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I agree. My wife calls it the sock in the corner symptom. ⁓ If you're complaining about that, it's not the sock, it's something else. It's something much more fundamental because if things were great, then you wouldn't even notice that sock. So like you said, it's like if I'm complaining and I'm angry because my glass of water is empty, there's something else that's wrong. It's not that glass of water. ⁓
Anthony Valletta (47:25)
Yeah. Yeah.
Nic (47:40)
And we started by talking about the trends in the restaurant industry and how it shifted from a family friendship kind of gathering towards technology that's kind of wiped it out, but now it's coming back. ⁓ So if we think about like, you know, looking 10 years ahead, what do you think the act of going out to eat looks like? Does it change? Does it become more of what it was before? How do you see?
the industry evolving from your perspective? And actually, how have you seen it evolving? Because you said you've celebrated 15 years now. So what have you seen in that pathway till today? And where do you see it going over the next 10 years?
Anthony Valletta (48:20)
That's a great question. ⁓ I think what we're going to see is a ⁓ larger divide between the styles of service, meaning your fast food, QSR, I think in 10 years is going to be so technologically forward in terms of tablets and robotics in the kitchen. And it's going to be primarily driven by technology versus a lot of the connectivity component. And I think people are okay with that at that level, because I think you're going into
quick service restaurant, fast food, not because you're looking for an quote unquote experience or engagement, because you're looking for a transaction. It's like going into a store. I want to go in to buy a shirt. I need to wear the shirt and I'm going to leave. go in a restaurant because I'm hungry. I get my product and I leave. I think the, the casual dining and fine dining component, I actually think to your point, we're going to revert back a little bit. But I think the reverting back is going to come with a level of personalization that they've never seen before.
Meaning I'm going to know so much more about Nick in allergies, likes, dislikes, that I'm going to be able to curate some really incredible experiences on the backend and have that data in my hands. The challenging part to your last question is how do you get your frontline people to execute all that data that we have? I think that comes from just going back to the old school component. I do think that technology is going so fast and it's so consuming.
And there's just so much information like popping off at you. So like in so many different manners that I think people are going to want to step away from it. And I do believe that in 10 years, restaurants are going to be back to being that escape from the real world. I mean, real world entirely, but like it's going to be a place of like, oh, let's, let's just go and sit down for an hour and have a cocktail and just let everything else go for a minute. And I think that's interesting. There's a, there was an article that came out that talked about this restaurant that was giving
a 10 % discount if you gave them your phone at the front door and put it in a locker. Because they wanted you to just experience the restaurant and who you're sitting with. And maybe that's gimmicky, and I don't think that's the component, but I think there's something to be said about that, that that world is starting to come back up. And you're seeing Gen Z say they're having these anti-technology trends. I do think that's coming back because to your point earlier in the podcast, I think people are starting to realize what they missed.
Nic (50:32)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Anthony Valletta (50:44)
And COVID exacerbated some of that. hate to, I always hate to use that as like a reference point, but we lost a lot of connectivity during that time for obvious reasons. And then when we came back, we had this technological boom that also allowed us to not have to interact as much as we needed to. So we've had like five years of kind of a separation of really shaking someone's hand. And I think people are now realizing, man, that was really something special. There's a lot more to be said about looking someone in eye in person, shaking their hand, sitting at a table.
Nic (50:51)
Sure. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Valletta (51:14)
I think we're gonna see a lot more of that in the coming five to 10 years.
Nic (51:17)
Yeah, I agree. If I think about the unique experiences that I have, ⁓ I think about how places make us feel special. So we have a restaurant here that we cannot not go because our kids love going to the same place. So every time we get together, like, where do you guys want to go? It's always the same damn place. And, you know, as an adult, I'm like, my God, I want to try something different. But it's like every time we walk in there, they make us feel like they know who we are and they remember us and they call us by our name. And that goes all the way to my mechanic.
I've been going to the same mechanic for 20 years because I walked in once, super nice Italian guy and made me feel welcome. When I went in the second time, I don't know, six months later, he called me by my first name. The first moment that I went in there, he's never forgotten. He knows everybody by their name. And I'm like, it's not an ⁓ unpopular mechanic. You he's got people coming in and out and yet he makes everybody feel so special that it's like, well, you have me. I'm not going anywhere else because Gus is going to take care of me and I can trust him because
Anthony Valletta (51:58)
All it takes.
Nic (52:14)
He tells me when things I should spend money on and he talks me out of things. He's like, no, you don't really need new breaks. You're fine. Wait another year.
Anthony Valletta (52:21)
Yeah, it's the old cheers mentality. You want to go over to know your name. I joke with my team. Everybody has that bar that serves warm beer and cold food. But when you walk in, the bartender knows your name and it feels like home. So you bring your friends and that's real. That's a real human connection that we need to get back to.
Nic (52:25)
yeah.
yeah, totally. Yeah.
Yeah. So Anthony, just with a closing question, I'd love to ask you, you know, if you can kind of fast forward to the end of your career and you're nowhere close to that, but you've done so many things. You started Del Fresco here in Boston and obviously you're CEO of Bar Taco. If you think about a place where you can reflect back in the body of your career, both things you've done today and things you're still working on, what do you think a best case scenario looks like that would make you feel like you've achieved your full impact?
What would make you feel the proudest when you look back of what you accomplished during your career?
Anthony Valletta (53:07)
You know, for me, it's not like a tangible thing in the industry. It's about how wide my net is. And what I mean by that is I look at all the people that have worked for me in my career, from servers to managers, and I look at their success and I still keep in contact with a lot of them. And to me, that's what really makes me the most proud. And that's what I hope when my career is done, I can look back and say, look how many other businesses or people or companies I've
touched because I was a part of that person's journey. ⁓ And to me, if I can look back when I'm done and have a net that just seems like I can't even see the end of it, I'm going to be the most proud.
Nic (53:50)
Yeah, well spoken like a true leader in the hospitality industry, right? You what really goes to your heart is how you touch people's lives. So with that, Anthony, this has been such a pleasure getting to know you, getting to know your business a little bit more. I look forward to the next time I get to step into a bar of taco, I'll be thinking about you. So with that, thank you so much for being here and I hope we can have this conversation sometime soon.
Anthony Valletta (54:11)
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
